Mouse Droid (2011 SDCC Exclusive) (VC67) - Hasbro - The Vintage Collection (2011)
Star Wars Collectible News, Photos, and Reviews

Mark Hamill Reveals Original Ending To The Force Awakens

Mark Hamill has revealed the original intended ending for The Force Awakens that Rian Johnson changed. Uh-oh, Mark. Maybe you should seal those lips of yours. Aren’t you in enough hot water with Disney’s legal team for bashing your onscreen character? All kidding aside, check out the article.

Related Links

  • bmales01

    uggh. what’s worse than the misschracterization of Luke in TLJ? Knowing that they originally had it [more] correct and then changed it.

    • Has Been Kenobi

      Nitpicking here, but technically Lucasfilm would have a better understanding of the characterization of a property that they own, and have owned for over 40 years

      • bmales01

        fair enough.

        I dont think I expressed my point well. I feel that Dizney is pushing the new generation of characters at the expense of the OT ones. I would have been happier if Luke fought and just got killed by whatever baddie they are pushing. its fine to continue the story, but I feel they are just writing off all the OT characters or reducing them to cameo roles, rather then blend the new with the old. the droids and Chewie could be around for a long time and should be utilized more

        • Has Been Kenobi

          Yeah, ackbar’s death was REALLY awkward and shoehorned in there.

          I just personally really like Luke’s arc in the last Jedi, going from a broken man to rising up to become the hero he was in his youth. My favorite scene is at the very end where Luke is staring into the sunsets, and I’m just reminded of the line ‘hope is like the sun, if you only believe in it when you see it, you’ll never make it through the night.’ Luke had lost all of his hope, shutting himself off from the force and not marching into battle lightsaber swinging. He becomes a man on the brink of losing everything, only to be reminded what he means to the galaxy; hope. 🙂

          Sorry, crazy ramblings from a Star Wars geek.

          • bmales01

            you make good and valid points. and we’re all geeks 🙂

        • darthmo

          I think the new characters would have had more resonance with many had at least a character like Luke mentored them through all the way to the last 10 minutes of EpIX and then passing over the baton to set up a further trilogy in a few years time. This would have given three films to develop their characters well, let the audience get to know them and not give the impression the old is now just a redundant inconvenience.

        • coreworld

          I was pleased with the way Lukes death was handled in TLJ, I didn’t really relish the thought of him going out like a Sith kebab like Qui Gon and Han.

      • bmales01

        I would also counter that Mark Hamill would have a better grasp of Luke more than anyone not named George. Plus, who’s to say the Lucasfilm staff are the same who worked with Lucas and have any insight into his character?

        • Has Been Kenobi

          That’s a good point, to be sure. But the artist doesn’t always get the character. David prowse thought that he was supposed to be the voice of darth Vader, even if that wasn’t the right decision for his character.

          I’m kind of glad we’re at a point in time where we have both; the heroic Luke of legends stories, and the human Luke of the sequel trilogy. Variety is the spice of life

          • bmales01

            good first point.

          • darthmo

            I imagine that Hamill would have had some pretty involved conversations with Lucas over the years and a much stronger relationship than Prowse. But I agree with what you say that at times one can be too close to a character or source material and be blinded by that.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Of course, I don’t mean to discredit Hamills opinions on his own character. Without him there would be no Luke Skywalker after all.

          • darthmo

            Don’t worry I knew what you’re saying. : )

        • darthmo

          That story group who appeared on the SW show trying to explain TLJ mostly looked too young to have even seen ANH in the theatre.

          • Jesus’s Best Friend Floyd

            They also sat around patting themselves on the back for every awful creative decision in the movie.

          • darthmo

            Lol, yes I was tempted to say that but thought someone might get upset. But yes, they didn’t come across as the kind of people I would want in charge of the SW universe.
            For every decision that gets put to screen or print and canonized just continuously waters down the overall quality and mystery of the SW universe that is sometimes better left to the imagination imo.

          • shane

            Especially when you know ” your ” imagination makes a lot more sense than ” their ” imagination. Lol !

          • darthmo

            Ha, yes, I’m sure we all think our version of events is the best and or right one!

          • Has Been Kenobi

            I mean, if that’s the standard we’re judging Star Wars on, then half of us have no valid arguments. I’m old enough to watch the my little pony movie in theaters if I want to, doesn’t mean I really appreciate or understand that property.

          • Daniel Preece

            But that’s NOT what the standard is. The standard is what has been established in the films, all of Lucas’s many interviews on the characters and the basic ideas/truths of his SW mythology. There is a ton of empirical evidence to support the argument that the Luke in TLJ is not the Luke in the OT.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Mythology. Mythology….

            I think you summed it up nicely. Lucasfilm used the Star Wars mythology and played off of it. Luke Skywalker was this Great hero in the Star Wars mythos, he could turn dark lords good, destroy Death Stars, and end galactic conflicts.

            Why can’t he be a little more human? Why do people complain Rey does everything perfectly and in the next breath complain how Luke doesn’t?

            And by empirical evidence, do you mean the old EU? Just to clarify.

      • Funtomaz

        Not when the people responsible for the creative decisions have been onboard for just a couple of years.
        Also, as far as I understand it, Rian Johnson had complete creative freedom and he wrote the script, so Lucasfilm had nothing to do with any of the big decisions in TLJ.
        An actor is not always the best counsel when it comes to creative decisions though, but a new director/script writer on set should listen when someone who played a role for years says that something feels out of character. They are probably right.

        The problem with the sequels is, that there is this huge gap between them and the OT. So many things are unexplained in the movies or only glimpsed in very short flashbacks.

        In my opinion the first sequel movie should have been about Kylo’s turn to the dark side and the appearance of the FO. It would have shown us how Han and Leia somehow failed Ben, how Luke failed with his academy, how he turned away from everything because of it. We would have better understood whatever comes next. And Luke’s portrayal in TLJ would have felt less out of place. We could have had a first big battle with the FO. We also could have seen the new republic, at least for a while. Give us the happy ever after for the first 15 minutes of the movie or so, until the cracks appear, instead of TFA which negates everything from the get go.

        Second movie would have been TFA. Considerable time jump since the first movie.

        And the third movie could have been TLJ, which already has quite some finality to it. You only need to change certain parts of the story to make it the last movie of the sequel trilogy.

        • Xo Tica

          Great ideas. I agree with you wholly, there was too much of a gap in the timeline between the OT and ST.

        • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

          Totally agree. The story arc doesn’t bother me, but the mystery boxes are creating lots of issues, not least of which is that we don’t connect with the characters as well because their pasts are sudden so the filmmakers can surprise us and when the time comes we are told what happened. Part of what makes SW so fantastic is that we travel along with the characters and identify with them. Not so much in the ST.

        • Has Been Kenobi

          Wasn’t the writer of empire brought on to help executive the scripts for these movies? Considering he wrote the one people universally agree is at least good, I think more faith could be put in him.

          Of course, these people haven’t worked with Lucasfilm long term, but what they are is passionate about Star Wars, and they want to put their own spin on it. Just like the director of empire did, just like the director of return of 5r Jedi did. Just like Dave Filoni did, just like Timothy Zahn did, etc etc all the way to Kathleen Kennedy et al. This isn’t likely to be the end all be all of Star Wars, but it’s as much Star Wars as pretty much any of the added on content has been.

          • Funtomaz

            As far as I know Kasdan co-wrote the script for TFA with Abrams (he also co-wrote the screenplay for Solo with his son).

            ESB had a story by Lucas, and Kasdan wrote the screenplay based on this story by Lucas. So he was not working in a vacuum but realized the ideas Lucas had and maybe added a few ideas of his own.

            But I venture a guess that all the big decisions were made by Lucas and his story.

            TLJ has a single writing credit: Rian Johnson. I think the story group supplied him with names for things, places, characters, but the story and screenplay are his own.

            Kasdan wrote movies like Bodyguard, Mumford, Darling Companion (which he also directed) and Dreamcatcher, none of these movies were well received by critics, none are particularly good.

            One was a huge box office hit, the others were flops. So his track record is not that great, actually.

            He did write the screenplay for the first Indiana Jones movie, but this was based on the story by Lucas and Philip Kaufman, so he adapted a story and didn’t really come up with lots of original ideas.

            Now that I have read up on Kasdan’s work I do worry a bit more about the script for Solo…. Because all of his original works not based on stories written by Lucas were not that great.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            That’s a well informed answer 🙂 thanks.

            I mean George Lucas also wrote the attack of the clones dialogue, so I think it’s fair to say Lucas alone doesn’t make Star Wars great or ‘true Star Wars.’

          • Funtomaz

            Which is why, in an ideal and perfect world, Lucas would only write the stories. And someone else writes the screenplays 🙂 It worked really well for ESB and ROTJ (forgot to mention that Kasdan co-wrote the screenplay with Lucas, based on a story by Lucas), and the first Indy movie also had well written dialogue by Kasdan.
            Lucas couldn’t write great dialogue if his life depended on it.

            Actually, Lucas wrote all three prequels on his own (Carrie Fisher might have polished the dialogue here and there). And I have come to appreciate the somewhat stilted quality of his dialogue. It sounds so archaic, theatrical and melodramatic at times. What took me out of both TFA and TLJ here and there were some colloquialisms not really used in Star Wars before.

            Do you watch Star Trek The Next Generation? The dialogue on this show often had some Shakesperian quality to it, if that makes sense, not too much unlike the dialogue in many Star Wars movies. This is completely absent from Star Trek Discovery and I miss it.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            No I’m pretty behind on Star Trek. However I can appreciate what you’re saying. I recently started reading the William Shakespeare’s Star Wars collection, and oh my goodness, Shakespearean dialogue in Star Wars is such a great fit!

          • Daniel Preece

            Pretty much everyone agrees Lucas needs someone else to polish up his scripts. During the PT he had no one telling him “no.” (He happily mentioned that his #2 guy, McCallum never gave ‘no’ as an answer. Oops.) Even Lucas will readily tell you that he hates the writing process and that his dialogue isn’t well written. He knows the ideas he wants expressed; he’s just not good a making it palatable. Or as the original cast said (Ford, I think): “You can write this, George, but you can’t say it.”

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Yeah, a lot of the dialogue in these movies isn’t all that great, but I honestly don’t mind so much. I’ve grown up my whole life with this very cheesy writing, I don’t really know where Star Wars would be without it.

          • Daniel Preece

            When Lucas was in charge of Lucasfilm, all that EU stuff had set standards and rules they had to meet. He wouldn’t put up with radical changes he didn’t think fit what he established in the movies. Now that Kennedy is in charge, she can change those rules. Problem is, customers have memories and we know what we’ve been paying for for 40 years. A new owner can start putting ketchup on Big Macs, but his customers are going to notice and probably complain about it (expecting to once again be offered the product they desire).

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Lucasfilm killed off Chewbacca in the old EU, so killing off beloved characters isn’t too radical for Lucas. Why is it considered radical for Lucasfilm to do it now?

        • shane

          I’ll go along with that. Well done.

      • darthmo

        Personally I don’t see that LF necessarily have a better understanding apart from what’s already set in concrete via the films and maybe past two animated series as we have to remember Disney wiped out a lot of prior legend and EU.

        • Has Been Kenobi

          But remember, the old EU was created by third party authors, Lucas basically said ‘yeah you can use our logo, have fun in that sandbox’. Which is why we have Star Wars zombies and 20,000 leagues under the space (just to clarify, I love those books :D).

          Lucas did not have control over how Luke is portrayed in the EU is what I’m getting at. So Disney going back to ground zero, stickig with what was established, and building from there makes more sense to me than trying to compile 30 years worth of EU material, from dozens of different authors. You even said yourself they’re just sticking to the original trilogy.

      • Jesus’s Best Friend Floyd

        JJ and Rian and KK are not Lucasfilm.
        Their relationship with Star Wars started a few years ago.
        They make huge budget fan fiction.
        George owned Lucasfilm for 40 years, not those hacks.

        • Has Been Kenobi

          Hey Floyd, how’s it going? This encounter was bound to happen eventually haha!

          I’m curious, and if you could humor me, could you summarize what Star Wars is, to you, in a sentence or so? I want to see where your coming from.

      • Daniel Preece

        You treat “Lucasfilm” as one entity with one mind, on set of knowledge. But the staff has changed over the decades. Lucas–the one guy who did know for certain–is gone.
        The “they” in your statement is a large number of changing people over that 40 years.

        • Has Been Kenobi

          You are correct. All with one unifying thing in mind. They all hold an appreciation for Star Wars. These are people who work day in and day out Star Wars. I can only dream of having such a great job. Many of these newer people grew up on Star Wars just like me, and now they want to add their footnote to it.

    • CJ

      Yeah, because when I think of Luke Skywalker, I think about how he liked making boulders levitate all the time. Good old “Floating Boulders” Luke.

      • bmales01

        he did it with Yoda on his foot, smarty pants

        • Has Been Kenobi

          But that’s when he’s first learning to develop his skills. After 30 some years wouldn’t he have better things to do?

          • bmales01

            I just didnt like the idea that Luke gave up. It diminishes his contribution. OB1 failed more miserably than Luke and dint give up.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Yeah, it was really crushing to see Luke so bitter and cynical. :/

          • bmales01

            I freely admit, I am old and part of this is due to tearing down a beloved character I grew up thinking was one way and then he turned out to be different. I’d be remiss not admitting that plays some role in me not being thrilled with the new SW

          • Has Been Kenobi

            I can respect that. I’m on the younger side of the spectrum, only being old enough to have watched attack of the clones in theaters when that came out. So I don’t have quite as much nostalgia invested in these characters as other fans do (not to say I don’t love Star Wars, cause I do:) which makes me more accepting of the change.

          • shane

            That’s a very kind and gentle way of saying it. You are a master of words.
            That is a path that is too late for me to go down now. Not when it comes to my #1 favorite childhood hero.
            Alas, I still have Mulder and Skully. In fact, they should have been in TLJ and I would have been very happy.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Im really sorry, I don’t want to offend you, but why is Luke so heroic? He was about to shoot Jabba in the face with no provocation. He lobbed off darth Vader’s Arm like a maniac, and spent the first two movies whining and not listening to anybody.

            Don’t get me wrong, I like Luke Skywalker, but I just don’t understand why all of a sudden Luke was this big heroic hero

          • Daniel Preece

            40 years is “all of a sudden?” Cmon, man, yer killin’ me! Luke’s ALWAYS been seen as a hero. He’s the quintessential epic, romantic, heroic hero–the kind stories have been told of for thousands of years. That’s exactly what Lucas intended to create and NO ONE questioned it until THIS generation came along.

            .

            I can’t believe this needs explained. Maybe it’s your education. You’re raised on modern “no one’s a hero” fiction. It’s everywhere now. First off, don’t assume modern sensibilities such as you mentioned preclude being a hero. Being a hero is about sacrifice, doing for others, overcoming great danger to oneself, believing in and being a part of things greater than yourself. Luke represents all of those. If that means having to kill, then that’s what has to be done. Note that Luke does no one harm who doesn’t intend to harm him (or other innocent people) first. Violence against the good or the weak is not okay. Violence in self-defense is okay. Violence against evil is okay.

            Luke follows the epic journey. He starts off as a simple, non-violent farmboy. He’s a good pilot but not a fighter yet (as shown vs the Tuskens and in the Cantina). He leaves Tatooine to help the rebellion, to learn the ways of the Force, then to save Leia, then to take the lead in blowing up the Death Star–all selfless acts of danger, for the benefit of others. In ESB he commits himself to being a Jedi (as we know, it’s not a fun life) and to serve the Light Side, or “the good.” He gains a new selfless motivations on Dagobah–to save his friends even though while saving him he could doom himself. On Bespin he makes a truly heroic choice of danger and self-sacrifice–once he learns the greatest evil of the universe is his father he doesn’t wish to kill him, he wishes to REDEEM him. A dead Vader would be a good thing, but a redeemed Anakin Skywalker (another Jedi!) would be even better. At no point does Luke take the easy choice, the one that puts him farther from danger. In ROTJ Luke faces Jabba, the Rancor, Boba Fett, and the Saarlac to rescue a friend (in the end, to save all his friends). At the end, Luke–knowing he isn’t as fully trained in the Force as his enemies–still willingly puts himself in Vader’s hands, and the hands of the Emperor, to save his father, the rebellion, and freedom in the galaxy. That’s all pretty darn heroic!

            I fear that you’ve heard that heroes are perfect. At no point has that ever been true. They can be virtually unbeatable (like Achilles or Superman), but they have their flaws. It’s not flawlessness that makes a hero, it’s the desire to overcome one’s own flaws to aid others that makes one a hero. And Luke Skywalker is every inch of that. And THAT is why we’re so damn pissed off about this new movie.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            My education? I read the Star Wars greats: Zahn, Luceno, Stover, Traviss, Ostrander, Blackman, Karpyshyn. Great authors in Star Wars legacy. How about you don’t jump to conclusions on my tastes in books?

            I don’t need or want my heroes to be perfect. Which is why I love Luke Skywalker in the last Jedi so much. Even though he is a flawed individual that made mistakes, it doesn’t matter cause the galaxy still calls him a hero. Thry still celebrate his accomplishments even in defeat. They hold true to their faith in him as being the greatest hero who ever lived.

            Some of my favorite Star Wars characters like Quinlan Vos, Mara Jade, Kyle Katarn, dealt with challenges, most typically with them falling to the dark side only to be redeemed. Luke’s storyin TLJ is so fresh because it doesn’t involve him turning to the dark side, but turning to his own emotions and feelings. At the beginning of the movie he is a selfish, cynical individual who by the end of the credits stands up to the first order because he’s the only one who can. And it costs him the ultimate price.

            Of course Luke Skywalker is a hero. I never doubted he was. The bigger question is, after the last Jedi, why do you?

          • rebelsfangirl

            Yes he did. He and Yoda could have been actively involved in he rebellion and working to undermine and save people from Palpatine and Vader. Instead they ran and hid because they decided the only way defeat Vader was to use Luke to kill him as an adult.
            Luke gave his entire adult life to destroy the Empire and destroy the Sith, only to have it all fall apart around him, and being the melodramatic dork he was he decided the best way to deal with it was to go into exile. Perfectly in character, I thought.

          • Daniel Preece

            Luke had to give up because the intended audience, emo millennials, want to give up and never have to try at anything in life. They don’t want to learn, to work, to move out of the house, to get married, or any other thing that involves EFFORT or RULES or SACRIFICE.
            Notice that Rey in TFA doesn’t want to DO or BE anything. Her fondest wish is to live once again with her parents. Events beyond her control carry her through the story; she takes almost no initiative to direct her own life. This is the opposite of Luke, who works every day and wants to leave home for better things (his loyalty to others is his only barrier). When an opportunity arises (from both the fortune of meeting Obi-Wan and the misfortune of his aunt/uncle dying)–to learn about his father, to learn the Force, to become a Jedi, to join the rebellion against the Empire–Luke takes it and never looks back. TWO DIFFERENT stories for two different generations.

  • Who is going to be the first person to complain that they dont see a link to the article?
    My bet is that they will be over the age of 40.

    • Jimmy Griffin

      My first thought was: “I don’t see a link in the text. Paul screwed up.” Then I had the bright idea of clicking on the picture. It worked! I’m 41.

    • I added the link, just to be sure there isn’t an issue lol. 99% of our articles are ALWAYS linked through the image, so I wouldn’t think it would be that hard to figure out, but hey, it happens.

      • Personally I look for the underlined text and it took me a second to think to click the picture.

    • JACKOFTRADZE

      I’m not over the age of 40 but your comment definitely shows that you are from the lemming generation who thinks they are “smart” because they are used to everything being served on a silver platter to them with a smartphone. I like to see how you would fair without your devices.

      • Jordan Siron

        Presumably you’ve had it easier than dustbowl-era farmers. What’s your point?

        • OfWolfandMan

          One point possibly is that instead of commenting on the article he chose to attack readers and participants of this site. Being that people love to throw around words like ‘racist’ and ‘racism'( and a bunch of others ) when they disagree, it could be said that he was discriminating, attacking, and trying to be hurtful based on age. Ageism.

        • Bats2012

          Make America great again, like is was back when we had it so tough.

      • That comment is unfare.

        • Bekim

          I see what you did their.

          • Pff… Eye can do whatever eye want. To the people who think otherwise, I say it’s none of there business.

      • Like I said, you can perceive the world however you want and choose to believe your imagination. If you would like to hear something thats closer to the truth: I got my first smartphone after having my run-down flip phone (with the broken hinge) for the last 8 years, and after two months that smartphone has become a source of annoyance in my life that wasnt there before.

      • Bats2012

        Lolz, it’s easy for people growing up under record income inequality? Longer hours and less pay?

        You sound like you didn’t get what you wanted out of life so now you just attack kids who actually care about getting a fair shake.

        • Daniel Preece

          But these kids have it WAY better than anyone in the past. If they want better income, they have the EASIEST road to and through education ever seen in human history. They just CHOOSE to not take advantage…because it’s hard and requires real effort and real learning (not to mention putting those damn phones down). They grow up with everything handed to them and done for them, so by the time they’re adults they take the path of least resistance (living at home till 30, working low income jobs, soaking up their parents’ income) while complaining about how “unfair” everything is. It’s ALWAYS been unfair. Those who do better simply take better advantage of their opportunities.

          • Bats2012

            Oh I get it, you’re being sarcastic

      • Daniel Preece

        I teach millennial kids every say. They are CRIPPLED without that device. Ask them a question, any question, and they crumble if they can’t look it up. Try to make them think and they automatically put their head down, refusing to try (or don’t know how to try), crying “just tell us!”
        It’s infuriating that they carry all the knowledge of human civilization in their pockets and all they use it for are tweets and as a replacement for thinking. It’s a disease. They can do better, but they’re simply tech-junkies. It’s rough.

    • bmales01

      I am notoriously technoimpaired and I figured it out on the first try

      • I was specifically thinking of the great bmales with that comment! Looks like youre getting crafty and wise in your old age.

    • Are you watching TLJ again?

    • zx_spectrum_30

      Any reason for the random insult? I’ve managed to use hyperlinks for 25 years or so and had no challenge with this one.

      • I wanted to follow the president’s example and not be so politically correct all the time. I didnt think it was going to be a big deal, but it looks like a couple of people got their feelings hurt.

        • zx_spectrum_30

          These days people find prejudice a big deal.

          • Well that is exactly what I thought, but lately it seems like its okay to pre judge others based on their politics, sex, where they live, what country they come from, how they identify themselves, what movies they like or dont like and all that…as long as you simply explain your prejudices away by saying youre not a politically correct individual or you just “tell it like it is”.

          • Daniel Preece

            Maybe older people take offense because THEY’RE doing all the work in this country so younger people can stay at home or in school and complain about how hard it is having everyone do everything for them.

          • Thats just their opinion, not the truth.

        • Daniel Preece

          Age bigotry is no less an offense than racial or gender bigotry.

  • TonyE

    if all they were going to do is have the floating rocks during this encounter i would of easily assumed it was Rey’s doing as much as Luke.

  • Has Been Kenobi

    I’m definitely in the minority here, but I was ok with how Luke was handled in the last Jedi. It used the fans expectations that had been built up for 30 odd years of legends material, and used it to their strength by addressing the fact that this character could never live up to the expectations of those around him based on the legends told about his life. And cutting himself off from the force has happened before with Revan, and luke’s Son in legends. It would have been weird to have a fully powerful Jedi master just sit back during the events of force awakens.

    • TonyE

      I was more than OK with how he was handled in TLJ. People change, people age, people shut themselves in. It was almost refreshing because it made him more human – almost like when you are a kid and you think your parents are invincible and will never die, then reaching the age when you realize how fragile they and life are.

      • Has Been Kenobi

        That’s a very mature way of looking at it. It’s so depressing, but I love your analogy.
        And yeah, they tried to make him a rlatesble character before they rebuilt him into the legend everyone saw him as by the ending. 🙂

      • Has Been Kenobi

        And yeah, personally I loved the last Jedi, but I didn’t want to step on too many toes by starting off my comment with that ????

      • Bats2012

        He was only 52 in TLJ. My dad is 64 and probably still tougher than me.

        What a depressing movie.

        • TonyE

          yea for sure, people in their 50’s can’t be allowed to be like that, and since your dad is still tough in his 60’s this movie just sucks.

          • Bats2012

            That’s not why the movie sucks, the story is.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            But why?

      • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

        Look how much Lucas has changed in the same time frame. He went from the creator of the most popular movies in history to someone accused of “r——- my childhood.” He’s stated that he doesn’t want to make more SW movoes because people get angry and accuse him of being a bad person and sold the franchise and has essentially gone into exile where he has refused to be involved with the next generation.

        Lots of alarming similarities between Luke and Lucas…

        • Has Been Kenobi

          Ohhhhh snap.

        • WeenieBeenie

          Luke has always been Lucas. That’s why Disney did such a hatchet job on Luke in TLJ. Lucas wants to complain to Charlie Rose that FA is just stealing from ANH (which it did!)? Okay, then we are gonna burn it all down—torch it. And use Luke/Lucas to do it! Most mean spirited film I’ve ever seen.

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Wow, Lucas told Charlie Rose it ripped off ANH? I remember the “white slavers” comment, but… wow. I really hope Disney isn’t being vengeful. I do see a lot of redemption in there. Counter to Kylo’s “kill the past” message, Yoda’s is more redemptive: “The greatest teacher, failure is.” Luke did find peace at the end and he did fade away. Hopefully that means he’ll be back in IX in a much more positive light.

          • WeenieBeenie

            Lucas did, in fact, say that to Rose. Watch the interview again. He made it clear that Lucas believes his Star War was about creating “a new and original” script and story, and that ANH was made for the fans as a remake, of sorts, of ANH. He said it about as clearly as he could, and believe me he got a nasty phone call as soon as it aired. Poor Lucas. Undone by the fans and now we miss him terribly after these film travesties. We killed our own golden goose…and now Disney will beat this corpse for decades.

    • CJ

      I don’t think you’re in the minority at all.

    • zx_spectrum_30

      Agreed, was ok with it (less so the almost killing Ben in his sleep bit)

      • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

        Yeah, I was disappointed too. But it does fit with his character. What did Yoda and Kenobi teach Luke that being a Jedi involved apart from 1)the dark side is very bad and 2) kill your father. Luke was essentially trained to be an attack dog, so of course he acted like one instinctively.

      • Has Been Kenobi

        Yeah that got really dark, but it fits with likes character of being a vicious killing machine a la Return of the Jedi

    • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

      I’ve posted this elsewhere and it’s a bit lengthy, but I’d be curious to read your thoughts on it. I’ve removed the links so it’ll post more easily here.

      Let’s imagine for a moment that Luke Skywalker’s entire arc is a fictionalized autobiographical account of George Lucas’s life.

      It’s often surmised that George Lucas based Luke Skywalker on himself.

      – Lucas has been quoted as saying “You can’t write a main character and not have him be part of you”.
      – Luke Skywalker. Luke S. Lucas.
      – Luke and Lucas share a background, both drag racing (be it cars or a T-16) in the desert.
      – Even Mark Hamill came to this conclusion as seen on the back of the trading card attached to this post

      The last time we saw Luke at the end of the OT, he had won the war and could do no wrong. In comparison, look at Lucas’s popular movies up to 83: American Graffiti, SW, ESB, Raiders, ROTJ. Lucas was likewise a hero and could do no wrong. He had succeeded in every way imaginable, though both Lucas and Luke had lost the girl.

      Then the next 30 years happened. The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles didn’t last long. Large amounts of fans turned against Lucas because of the Prequels and Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was likewise widely panned. “Lucas raped my childhood” became a running joke.
      In Lucas’ own words:

      “You go to make a movie and all you do is get criticized, and people try to make decisions about what you’re going to do before you do it,” said Lucas. “And it’s not much fun. You can’t experiment. You have to do it a certain way. I don’t like that, I never did. I started out in experimental films and I want to go back to experimental films.”

      “Why would I make any more,” Lucas says of the “Star Wars” movies, “when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?”

      Thirty years after the OT, Lucas is essentially in the same place in which we found Luke in the ST—deeply affected by perceived failure in the eyes of those his work meant the most to, at what he was supposed to be best at, and he has essentially abandoned everything and went into hiding. He even said at the TFA premiere that he was going to go make movies that no one but his friends would ever see.

      And of course, we now know that Lucas himself had the idea for “Kylo” destroying Luke’s Jedi temple and for Luke to go into hiding.

      If Lucas could fall so far in so many people’s eyes, why couldn’t Luke, especially if we assume Luke is based upon Lucas?

      This concept makes Luke’s arc so much more devastating and realistic to me.

      All this also makes me wonder, if Luke was intentionally given a similar experience to Lucas, are the very types of fanboys who are so mean-spirited against Luke’s role in TLJ the very reason Luke’s journey went the way it did? If Lucas hadn’t been called a failure so vocally and so frequently, would Luke have ended up where he did in TLJ, a bitter old man who abandoned everything he once held dear and is withdrawn away from others?

  • I have to admit this, my favorite part of this whole Sequel Trilogy thing has been Mark Hamill’s commentary on the whole matter. If Mark did commentary for TLJ, you’d have to let him do it 4 different times and include all four tracks because each time he did it, it would contain more and more information and more Hamillism. I love that he still keeps going on about it too.

    • Has Been Kenobi

      It does get amusing at times, but still very respectful I feel. I like his willingness to critique flaws in the movies without bashing people who do like the them 🙂

    • Bats2012

      I bet he would make fun of it quite a bit if not pulling punches

      • Daniel Preece

        Let’s see what happens after they tell Hamill there’s no more work for him.

  • CJ

    Yeah, that would have been stupid. So people upset that Luke abandoned the galaxy (and his friends and family) to its problems would have been happier if he spent his time doing parlor tricks for his own amusement?

    • Has Been Kenobi

      😀 He’s remembering yoda’s lesson;

      A Jedi only uses the force for parlor tricks. Never for attack.

    • Funtomaz

      I am certain there would have been a very good reason for him to be on Ahch-To and for his absence during the invasion of the FO.

      • Matthew Vandebogert

        a reason he could be in exile while connected to the force using force powers could simply be Yodas old lesson. Luke took off unprepared and unbalanced to save his friends. could have been he knew Snoke could over power him with Kylos help unless he learned and Mastered some new unique powers found in the ancient texts. He could also have known he had to wait for Rey to find him through a force vision. if he truly went off to die why leave a map? So it could have been a “test” for his new padawan. That it would be the force guiding its choice to him instead of him out looking for FORCE sensitives. im not saying this from a disliking of TLJ. im having a bit of fun speculating on how i think things could have happened with believable and optimistic ideas. 🙂

  • scariftrooper43

    My ideal version of seeing Luke in TFA would be if they hadn’t shown Rey go to the island and just have a post-credit where fades from black to a close-up to Luke’s face where the camera would pan out and, in the back ground you could see boulders and other things floating. Then it would center in on Luke and he could say something like “I am no longer the last jedi”

    • Has Been Kenobi

      Personally I don’t even feel like you’d need that line in there. 🙂 otherwise I like your scene

      • scariftrooper43

        Thank you. I felt like the scene would be cool on its own but, I also felt like giving Luke a line would put it over the edge.

        • Has Been Kenobi

          Yeah that’s fair. And it wouldve been interesting to have that line before the title was revealed.

          • Axonrey

            What about “There is another…” as a callback to Empire/Yoda?

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Ooh I like it. Keep it ambiguous

  • Funtomaz

    Just shows that there is no plan at all for the sequels. Which is bad.

    Come to think of it… why was Luke wearing his traditional Jedi robes on the day Rey found him? When he’s not a Jedi anymore? He promptly changes into his grumpy island hermit outfit.

    I almost wish JJ had done TLJ 😉 At least it would have been consistent with what was shown in TFA.

    Someone will do it sooner than later and splice together the final few seconds of TLJ with the direct continuation of the scene in TLJ. It will be jarring. There was so much going on in Luke’s face in the final few seconds of TFA. You can tell that the Luke in TFA would not have tossed the lightsaber over his shoulder for comedic effect.

    • ExarKun777

      This! This! I have been pointig the aburd about Luke wearing jedi robes if he is a hobo now.

      • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

        Jedi seppuku interrupted by Rey. Check the Visual Dictoonary.

        • ExarKun777

          Is this serious? please tell me not

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish
          • ExarKun777

            Oh well, hahaha, thanks for the reference. It’s so sad how they fill huge plot holes with this books that the general public does not read.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Would you rather they go to the millions of dollars it took to make Rogue One, just to explain how they were able to blow up the Death Star?

          • Daniel Preece

            Notice the phrase “one final Jedi rite.” That says he is going to perform the last ritual he’ll ever perform. It does NOT automatically mean suicide. Religions have MANY rites. It could have been anything.
            BUT… here again we see just random writing. If Luke’s distancing himself, WHY is he doing any rituals AT ALL? How are we supposed to believe Luke has divorced himself from the Force when EVERYTHING he does and says suggests the opposite?

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Lots to respond to Daniel.

            I admit it is an interpretation and have asked for alternate takes. I also didnt intend to communicate that every detail of Luke’s arc in TLJ came from Lucas, but that the idea of failure, exile, and some unwillingness to train the next generation did.

            I’m glad you had a more balanced view of Luke at the end of ROTJ. I didn’t. I grew up seeing him as a “Mary Sue” witgout realizing it, and was devastated by TLJ.

            This is a forum posting and in my short experience here, they often go unanswerered, so I’d rather challenge a poster complaining of plot holes and calling people hacks and bad writers to investigate the very matter for themselves than to spend time spelling it out in every detail for them. If you want ti engage on the topic, I would gladly do so. Let me go ahead and spell what I have never denied is my interpretation, even if I presented it strongly and at the same time provided the page from the dictionary so others could engage with it.

            This is what we know as facts (with interpretations in parentheses): Luke went to Ahch-To, it now seems to me that he had nothing to do with the map (I need to rewatch TFA and TLJ again to confirm or disprove this or perhaps you could tell me). Luke used one of the wings from his X-Wing to make a door to his hut and put the X-Wing underwater (indicating to me that he never intended to leave, I guess it is possible that it broke off, but that doesn’t seem likely). He states that it’s time for the Jedi to end; that the books are the last of the Jedi religion; and after Rey leaves, Luke apparently immediately changes back into those robes from the beginning, dispite it being evening and being more-or-less alone, and attempts to burn the Jedi texts (if he attempts to destroy half of what’s left of the Jedi religion, what might he be considering to do with the other half???). Then, after Snoke reads Rey’s mind, Snoke says something to the effect of wanting to give Skywalker the death he desires. Finally, after projecting himself to Crait, he does look exhausted, but he also seems to recover before inexplicably becoming one with the Force.

            (Luke’s apparently been very intentional about not being found, about ensuring he will never leave that island, and has attempted to destroy the books. He even desires death in Snoke’s understanding. Maybe his “one final Jedi rite” isn’t a Jedi version of seppuku [a word I used because it indicates a death for reasons far removed from depression, no I don’t think he was going to disembowel himself with a lightsaber]. Maybe he wasn’t going to do a ritual to remove the possibility of him training more future Dark Side users. But with everything I’ve listed above, if Luke wasn’t going to end his life, I’d have to agree with you, it would just seem like a bunch of random writing and why would Luke distance himself from the Force and theb perform a Jedi ritual?).

            Regarding Luke’s removal from the Force: Rey states it and Luke is taken aback and ignores it; Luke was unaware about Han’s death and probably the Hosnian system based on Rey filling him in, whereas Leia and Rey feel Luke’s passing; Luke isn’t shown clearly using the Force until he is inspired by Artoo to connect with Leia from that cliff, after which Luke runs down the hill urgently seeking after Rey, shouting her name and even smiling as he bursts into Rey’s hut, only to find her communing with Kylo, at which point he becomes furious, though afterward he uses the Force to prevent himself falling onto the stairs and to grab the weathervane weapon. (I really think Artoo’s plan had worked and after connecting with Leia, that Luke was ready to go back (hence, the excitement and smile), but finds Rey and Kylo as they were, ehich makes him more determined for that “one final rite”, which is why he might be marching up the hill to burn the books.).

            My interpretations.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b39f0f156856ca2d7d92750847267a092ac17b5f8da289375a02c482eb007edb.jpg

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            This is a bump. I responded to this comment first and then to other stuff. My first reply to this comment is the one I’m most hoping you’ll see and respond and engage with. I welcome more intelligent responses and would love alternate interpretations!

        • Has Been Kenobi

          Waiting on that book at my library. We’re really behind on Star Wars books

    • Jesus’s Best Friend Floyd

      He’s wearing Jedi robes because JJ and Kasden had no intention of making him a douchie quitter hermit. Then Rian came along.

      • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

        I wouldn’t be so sure that wasn’t the plan. Google Lucas’ plans for Episode 7 and you’ll find that the Art of the Last Jedi has revealed that Lucas’ pitch for 7 involved the fall of a Kylo Ren type of charavter and Luke’s exile.

        • Daniel Preece

          But you (and Rian, apparently) take Lucas’s idea of “exile” and “meditation” and DISTORT it into Luke becoming a suicidal apostate. THAT’S NOT FROM LUCAS. That’s just your own wishful thinking.

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Was discussing the “douchie quitter hermit” comment here. From what I read, Kira needed to do some convincing to get some level of training from Lucas’ exiled Luke.

      • matt

        Actually they did.., listen to Han’s exposition when he explains it to Rey and Finn

      • Daniel Preece

        Exactly. Rian made all this up on his own.

    • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

      Check the visual dictionary. He was wearing the Jedi robes because he was about to perform a Jedi version of seppuku and Rey interrupted him. He then likely changed so she wouldn’t see him as a Jedi. After she left, he changed back to torch the books and then finish himself, but after hos talk with Yoda, he went out with purpose instead of dispair.

      • Funtomaz

        This is even worse… 😀 I read about that and chose to ignore it. Luke committing suicide… What was Johnson thinking? He had a couple of good and some bad ideas in TLJ, this is clearly the latter.

        • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

          Blame Lucas. Google the plans he had for 7 that were revealed in the Art of the Last Jedi book.

        • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

          I wonder how much Lucas has been basing Luke on himself. Think about it, at the end of the OT Luke and Lucas could do no wrong. Then they both failed their student/fans with a mistake (in Lucas’ case shown in the response to the prequels), and they both abandoned everything and went into exile. Lucas’s words regarding not wanting to make more SW movoes because people only complain and tell you what a horrible person you are really sounds like an even more bitter version of Luke to me.

          • Daniel Preece

            That’s just YOUR preferred interpretation. There’s nothing in ROTJ that suggests Luke “could do no wrong.”
            You TLJ apologists keep over-inflating things–creating “straw men”–so you have something to argue against. Not the real facts, mind you, just the misinterpretations YOU create.

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Oversimplification to make a point on an internet comment section. Perhaps the words “at the end of ROTJ, Lucas and Luke were so successful they had become legends and legends are often idealized” would have been better.

        • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

          Again, much of Luke’s arc came from Lucas.

          • Funtomaz

            But wasn’t Luke also supposed to come out of his funk and become Rey’s/Kira’s/Whoever Jedi master?

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Didn’t he sort of do that?

          • Funtomaz

            Not really. He was not a more traditional Jedi master who takes on a padawan. Two lessons in two days or so hardly constitute an apprenticeship, I suppose.

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            I may be speaking prematurally because I’m completely expecting the redeemed Luke to play a big role as Rey’s mentor in 9, albeit as a force ghost.

          • Funtomaz

            That would be nice, but somehow I doubt that JJ will go in this direction with Ep IX. But I’d certainly hope for it! Rian Johnson left the door wide open for force ghosts that can interact with the physical world.
            There’s still zero reason given why Anakin apparently never talks to Kylo/Ben and appears to him. Anakin should spank him 24/7! 😉 He and Yoda can take turns! And now uncle Luke can be a part of the gang!

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Didn’t Zahn explain that Anakin never appeared to Luke after the ewok village? That explanation always resonated with me: Yoda and Obiwan brought “him” back to see Luke, but it wasnt something Anakin could really do.

          • Funtomaz

            Well, have Yoda and Obi-Wan accompany Anakin then, the more the merrier! At least Yoda could have appeared and put itching powder in Kylo’s helmet or something like that! 😉 It just doesn’t seem likely to me that none of the established force ghosts tried to communicate with Kylo. They’ll come up with some explanation, most certainly, either in one of the books or Ep IX perhaps.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            That is beautifully sad 🙁

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            True, but if Qui-Gon couldn’t fully be a Force Ghost after death, how would Anakin?

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Yeah. I mean, I love it, it adds so much more to that scene, but it’s just sad ????

          • Midichlorians of course.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Nope! Don’t say that word! Go to your room

          • Daniel Preece

            Again, you distort the facts. Lucas said Luke was “meditating.” NO mention of self-harm or quitting the Force or Jedi or ANY of that garbage.

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Everything mentioned in the quote below has been attributed to Lucas and happened on film, at least as worded here. To what extent Lucas intended Luke’s “depression” to be is unclear. All I said is that much of Luke’s arc came from Lucas. We simply don’t know how many were Johnson’s ideas on his own. Google this quote for the fuller article:

            “Young mentioned that many of the plot points for the character of Kylo Ren were already decided by Lucas: that he would betray his uncle, kill many of his fellow students, and ultimately murder his own father. Likewise, Rey would ultimately convince Luke to get out of his depression and do something about the war. The key difference is that both of these events would have happened in the same Episode VII – whereas in The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, they’re both late-movie plot points. Hidalgo added to Young’s observations by noting that Kylo Ren’s origin was actually intended to be explored in Episode VII instead of Episode VIII.”

      • Daniel Preece

        Book says “ritual,” NOT suicide. And there is more than ONE ritual in any religion.

        • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

          Yes, religions have many rites. However, the book doesn’t say that he wears the robes to perform just any rite, it says he wears those robes “to undertake one final rite”. How many of any given religions are referred to as a “final rite”? That is very specific working, isn’t it?

    • I was wondering the same thing too. What was the special occasion that he was wearing his jedi robe? It would be chilling if his “final jedi ritual” was part of an off screen backstory as some have hinted. I think it would have been quite fitting too according to the original mythos Lucas had in mind when he liken Jedi Knights to samurai warriors.
      Im sure they have a general story outline for the trilogy, or at least as much as Lucas might have planned out before hand. Its not like he planned every single small detail (or even the big ones) in the OT. For the first two movies, Luke and Leia’s relationship was definitely not being played out as if they were going to end up as siblings.

    • Daniel Preece

      I guess wearing formal Jedi clothing helped Luke “distance” himself FURTHER from the Force, or being a Jedi? He did go to all the trouble of exiling himself at Jedi Order HQ.
      Nothing will help you distance yourself from an ex-girlfriend better than hiding in her closet and wearing her clothes….
      (That’s how much sense Johnson’s Luke storyline makes…)

  • rebelsfangirl

    I hate that idea so much. What showy nonsense. The Jedi aren’t supposed to show off, for all their flaws, and making boulders float for, what, to impress the young woman who just landed? Is just a stupid idea.

    • Funtomaz

      It’s his daily Jedi work out routine, of course! 😉

    • Matthew Leuck

      Yeah. I loved the ending to TFA – the boulder thing wouldn’t have made any sense.

    • Bats2012

      Did you have a problem when they have Rey show off?

      Edit: Or when broom boy showed off?

      • rebelsfangirl

        There is a difference between showing them use the Force while training and them randomly doing it just to show they can.

        Have you even seen the broom boy scene? It’s blink and you will miss it, hardly showing off.

        • Daniel Preece

          The broom scene is even worse. It changes the nature of the Force to show that anyone can use its powers without training.

      • Has Been Kenobi

        I don’t recall many times where Rey actually showed off, by which I mean using the force for no explicit purpose whatsoever. I’ll give you The broom boy scene. 🙂
        That was just plain lazy. Like Luke pulling the lightsaber one foot in Return of the Jedi lazy

        • Bats2012

          Are you talking about from the Emperor? How else should he have done it?

          That would be pretty awkward if he just walked over and took it…

        • Daniel Preece

          So you don’t like seeing a Jedi use his powers instinctively. That scene you bash was BRILLIANT. It’s the same level of maturity as learning a new language and you reactively speak/think in that language.
          That was the PURE ECONOMY OF MOTION. He didn’t clumsily take steps forward then reach an arm out to snatch and then step away–exposing his intent with every inch, giving both Palpatine and Vader time to prevent his plan. No, it achieved his goal unconsciously, instantaneously, INSTINCTIVELY. And now we see that Luke really is more powerful, more ready, than before. In ESB he had to concentrate hard to do that, now he does it effortlessly.
          That’s not “lazy.” But your effort in understanding it was…

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Given my years of appreciation of Star Wars, I feel I’ve earned the right to make jokes about it. 😉 you have lots of great things to say, if didn’t use those precious letters for personal digs.

            I never said I didn’t like a Jedi using his powers. If I didn’t, then why would I watch Star Wars? Or the clone wars? Or read the books? Or play the games? If you’re open to talking Star Wars, I’m all ears. Big, Green, Pointy ears

  • zx_spectrum_30

    For me, the ending we saw was the right call. If Luke was on the island emmitting The Force or levitating boulders then the plot line that Snoke, Leia, etc couldn’t sense him wouldn’t have stacked up.

    • Has Been Kenobi

      That’s….wow that actually makes a lot of sense.

    • Daniel Preece

      Since they were making up random force powers, then why couldn’t Luke have had a “Force Cloak” power that makes him undetectable?

      If he can distance himself from the Force, why not the ability to distance himself from other Force users?

  • Jesus’s Best Friend Floyd

    JJ/Rian “we caught that” boulder thing.. LOL.
    But missed the other 50 plot holes and inconsistencies.
    Including, WHY IS LUKE WEARING JEDI ROBES AT THE END OF FORCE AWAKENS IF HE’S A QUITTER HERMIT THAT HATES THE JEDI!?

    Bunch of hacks ruined Star Wars. They thought they could wing it.

    • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

      He was wearing them because he was about to perform a version of Jedi seppuku. This is implied in the movie when he puts those robes back on before attenpting to torch the library and confirmed in the Visual Dictionary.

      Also, the Art of the Last Jedi has shown that thos version of Luke was Lucas’ plan for Luke innhis pitch for Episode 7.

      I’m sorry you don’t like it.

      • Jesus’s Best Friend Floyd

        Wrong. JJ and Kasden never planned to have Luke dress up like that to commit suicide! Even hack Rian did not ever say Luke was going to kill himself on purpose. You can read into Luke’s wardrobe changes and fantasize your own plot all day, but its not true.

        • Jordan Siron

          JJ and Kasdan didn’t plan anything. That’s the fundamental problem. They planted mysteries they had no throughlines for, because that’s what JJ does. He’s admitted as much.

          • Bats2012

            How has Star Wars been ruined by something else “J.J.” it’s almost as bad as sequels with the same plot

          • matt

            Agree 100%

        • ObiWanKenobiJibberish
          • Has Been Kenobi

            Hello there!

          • Funtomaz

            They came up with that after the fact, meaning, after TFA. In the Art of TFA you can see a sketch of Luke with a lightsaber hanging from his belt. Whatever he was supposed to be, it changed quite drastically with TLJ.
            And yes, Johnson or whoever wrote that dictionary entry may have come up with the idea of that final Jedi ritual, so it is canon, I suppose, but that was not what Luke was originally doing in that final scene of TFA.

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Well, Luke didn’t have a lightsaber in TFA and he looked upset about something.

            But, things change in filmmaking. Vader was changed to Luke’s father as the process moved along, Leia was changed to be Luke’s sister as it moved along.

            The writer of the dictionary is Pablo Hidalgo in LFL’s story group.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            What WAS he doing?

          • Funtomaz

            No one knows, not even Abrams, I suppose, but we can be pretty certain it wasn’t some kind of Jedi sepukku.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Touché. Though, Star Wars was based on Japanese cinema, so it fits with the motif

        • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

          I’m not fantasizing, Floyd. See the attached dictionary entry for yourself. I’m drawing this information from the dictionary so I can understand and mourn a hero who made a serious mistake but found peace at the end. If the words “one final Jedi rite” in this kids’ book aren’t referring to a Jedi version of seppuku, I challenge you to offer a clearer explanation of what those words mean.

          • Bats2012

            Lol, what you linked isn’t even the outfit he’s wearing at the beginning of the film. Visual guides are usually written by idiots and have some cheesy stuff in them, this is not an exception, they couldn’t even select the right outfit.

            At the end of the day the only thing that matters is what’s on the screen. If Shakespeare had some buddy write a visual guide for MacBeth it wouldn’t change what was actually in the play.

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Live in denial all you want. 🙂

          • Bats2012

            It’s not the same outfit are you blind?

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish
          • Has Been Kenobi

            I like his costume, but why does it look like the cloak is sown to the robe? That can’t be practical

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            “Hollywood magic” 😉

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish
          • WeenieBeenie

            Hair grey with age, saddled by the weight of Disney’s travesty.

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Same outfit, different lighting on Skellig Michael than in the studio.

          • Bats2012

            Maybe it is, I thought this was the shorter version he wears in the flashbacks though.

            Regardless, my point that the visual guide doesn’t carry much, if any weight, still stands. Even if it did that doesn’t mean people have to take your interpretation of it.

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Where are you getting this idea that Pablo Hildago’s book doesn’t carry weight? He is responsible for creating and maintaining canon and is a creative executive for story decelopment at Lucasfilm.

            What would be an alternate interpretation for the words, “Luke now only wears this robe to undertake one final Jedi rite”?

          • Has Been Kenobi

            He was going to float some rocks

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            He looked might upset about something, probably that he wasn’t allowed to float those rocks, right?

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Well, I WAS going to float some rocks, but SOMEBODY (glares at Rey) had to come and need my help.

          • Bats2012

            I don’t really care, the movies are garbage, they probably did want to have Luke commit suicide, it would fit right in with all the other stupidity.

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Seriously? You accuse me of being blind, authors of being idiots, imply that I’m trying to force my interpretation on others, and yet when presented with strong evidence that disagrees with your opinion and asks for an alternate option, you simply admit that I was probably right to begin with, call the movie garbage and stupid, and just walk away?

            I was actually hoping to hear another viewpoint. Oh well.

          • Bats2012

            You did hear the other viewpoint, the correct one, that nothing in the movie strongly implies or makes explicit that Luke was going to commit suicide. You ignored that because, for you, your speculation about a throw away call out in a book is stronger evidence than what’s on film.

            I don’t care to argue further because I don’t care about Disney Star Wars, because it’s not good.

            “Luke now only wears this robe to undertake one final Jedi rite”. Could mean any number of things. It could mean he was going to officially denounce the order, it could mean he ceremoniously feeds the porgs every third Saturday. It could also mean they wanted to have him actually be Luke Skywalker but then decided he needed to be Jake Skywalker so they had to make up an excuse for why he was pretending to be a Jedi at the end of TFA.

            I don’t really care what excuse they retcon because the story wasn’t any good and had logic problems all over the place.

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Wow, Bats2012’s argument from silence outweighs Lucasfilm Creative Executive Pablo Hildago’s clear statement on the matter. Your statement that “one final rite” might be an ongoing, tri-weekly ritual is especially convincing. Though I have to wonder, how do you know they’re called “porgs” since one was never referred to as such on film and any information from any other source is “speculation”? I would ask that you enlighten me.

          • Bats2012

            Lol so you admit you just like your interpretation. You have about as many logic errors as TLJ.

          • Bats2012

            Also “one final rite” could mean one rite he does multiple times, especially since it says he “now” only wears it. It may be the last rite he still performs. It’s okay dude, I know English is tough even for some native speakers.

            Once again you’ve ignored the fact that poor little Pablo’s sentence can be interpreted different ways and supposed YOUR interpretation is the ONLY interpretation.

            I really have no interest discussing these stupid movies with you any further.

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Here’s hoping for some really positive interaction on some awesome OT toys to be announced at Toy Fair next month! 😀

          • Has Been Kenobi

            I’m hoping for Empire themed OT, particularly 😀

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            I’ve been so focused on filling some holes in my vintage Kenner collection, I haven’t given much though to TVC stuff I’d hope for. That Hoth Soldier caught my eye though.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Yes please. More Hoth soldiers!

            My Kenner collection is small, and will probably remain that way. Too expensive for me

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Search for “ewok spit posts” in the group. Those things are cool.

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Search for “ewok spit posts” in the group. Those things are cool. Cool, but expensive.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Gotcha

          • Has Been Kenobi

            I’m sure that leads to inventive solutions

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Another viewpoint? You DO realize you’re talking to Star Wars fans, right?

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Sometimes we can be, but TLJ does seem to be causing a lot of overly emotional responses and divisions. I do think if JJ had shown us how Luke ended up on the island as Lucas had planned to, instead of employing the mystery box, it would have been a lot easier for more of us to accept. As it is it came out of nowherea d was a HUGE leap from the happy, seemkngly final victory in ROTJ. I accept where Luke was, but am disappointed that we didn’t travel there with him.

          • WeenieBeenie

            THERE IS NO STAR WARS CANON. DISNEY HAS VACATED ALL CANON AND CONTRADICT WHAT THEY HAD PREVIOUSLY CREATED. STAR WARS IS WITHOUT CANON.

          • shane

            Yep.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Inside voices please

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Well, it’s officially produced Lucasfilm material, so it holds more weight than internet theories.

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            But the ones spouting internet theories who use lots of negative adjectives must be right.

          • WeenieBeenie

            Originally produced Lucasfilm material also said that all Stormtroopers were clone troopers and that clone troopers did NOT have an inhibitor chip and that Order 66 wasn’t a genetic code, but just discipline. They change things all the time. The SW universe is a nonsensical mess with no canon at all.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            To be fair, I don’t recall any material saying that all stormtroopers were clones, since that would be a major plot hole in a new hope. But the fact is that’s what Disney is trying to do, by creating a canon that’s not as old as the previous one, and this far everything in the new canon and the movies is in agreement, and does have a semblance of sense.

          • Daniel Preece

            Lucas called them DRONES at first. Drones are not CLONES. This was not a “change.” Originally, the army was made of clones (Clone Wars, duh), but by the OT they weren’t using clones. Look up “drones” to see what Lucas meant.

          • WeenieBeenie

            That’s not the case. See above comment…Lucasfilm produced a sourcebook in 1979 stating that Stormtroopers were all, in fact, clones.

          • WeenieBeenie

            Sorry–source book was 1981–The World of Star Wars, article Soldiers from the Empire. Produced and licensed by Lucasfilm.

          • WeenieBeenie

            In 1979, Lucasfilm produced the World Of Star Wars, which is akin to today’s source book material. There, on an article on Storm Troopers, they specifically list them as clones and products of the Clone Wars. This was Lucas’s initial intent all along. Its a widely cited source for “canon.”

          • Has Been Kenobi

            I’m going to look into this book 🙂 I thought I’ve read all the books about Star Wars (obviously an exaggeration)

          • Has Been Kenobi

            My chief source of reference was the ultimate visual guide, produced around 2007 I want to say. Where they had a little blurb talking about how clones were retired in favor of enlisters

          • WeenieBeenie

            yes for some strange reason Lucas changed it after ROS. I don’t know why. The entire premise of the prequels was that Clones became Stormtroopers and the Republic an Empire. That’s the punchline of the prequels. I think one thing that happened was the Clone Wars tv show that made clones more human-like than first planned (even early Clone Wars-era comic adaptations made them less capable of individual and weighty thought). Once they had names and personalities, Lucasfilm suddenly decided they couldn’t be Storm Troopers. But I think that totally misses the point that they already set-up–that good things become evil. Moreover, Lucas initially insisted in several interviews that Order 66 was NOT from some pre-planned genetic code or an “inhibitor chip,” but that the Clones simply existed on discipline and did as they were bid without thinking and with no remorse (Hence, STORMTROOPERS). The whole mythos of the Storm Troopers was kind of ruined by the Clone Wars tv show. By creating an inhibitor chip, they made the Clones not at fault for Order 66 and the destruction of the Jedi. That ruins what Lucas had worked so hard to create. I don’t know if he just didnt’ care at that point, or if the final season of Clone Wars was more Disney than Lucas, but it ruined what had already been established about the Storm Troopers AS Clones. That’s what makes them frightening. Unfeeling, unthinking machines.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Yes! I love pre TCW clone wars material. the republic commando series addressed this well, where the clones talk about the fact that order 66 is just a contingency order just like any army has, instilled with discipline. Which allowed some freer thinking clones, like ARC troopers and commandos, to disregard the order.

          • WeenieBeenie

            yeah that would have been better, but I do also like the idea that NO clones resist the order. That’s what happened in Nazi Germany–you didn’t have to be a Nazi to be part of the Holocaust. No one stopped it and many participated. That was Lucas’s model for the Stormtroopers and the whole inhibitor chip thing feels very Disney and ruined the powerful story he had to tell. Sigh.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            That does make star wars a whole lot more mature. I think TCW tried to demonstrate how the clones were almost enslaved, and approaching it from a different sociological angle. Which I can kind of get behind, since the Clone Wars was one of my favorite eras.
            Again, harkening back to the Revenge of the Sith novelization, where characters like commander Cody demonstrate that even though they can be on good terms with the jedi, they’ll turn on a moments notice, Cody going so far as to say “Would it be too much to ask for the order to have come before I gave him back the bloody lightsaber?”

            You’ll come to notice I reference a lot of star wars books haha!

          • WeenieBeenie

            Its a 1981 source, not 1979. But its called Soldiers from the Empire and its from Lucasfilm and it clearly states that Stormtroopers are Clones from the Clone Wars. That was always Lucas’s initial idea–I don’t really get why he changed it (aren’t you a little short for a storm trooper?), as I don’t think the punch of the prequels is as strong without it. What the Jedi and the Republic did at the end was to build an empire…and the clones were the unthinking backbone of that empire. That is chilling stuff and how Star War was initially envisioned. Before the Dark times…

          • shane

            At this point internet theories hold more weight. And that IS bad.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            A fair argument, but I don’t know what internet theories you’re reading, cause the last one I read was that Poe and Leia have a secret love affair going on behind the scenes. That hold about as much weight as an insect sneeze.

          • shane

            Many of the fan theories are ridiculous, granted. But my point is that I believe the FANS , whoever and whatever the new theory is, that they are coming up with whatever it takes to try and make this mess make sense. But at least the passion was there. Now ? Well I just don’t know what to think anymore. All I know is ……#notmylukeskywalker

            And ………… . ,#notmystarwars.

          • shane

            Actually the way they have handled this DISNEY Canon, none of it really matters. The Novels, Comics and whatever really isn’t that important compared to how the EU was handled. Just my opinion but I hear a lot of Disney NEW Lucasfilm apologists complaining about not much connection between the movies and Rebels and the comics and novels and so on, with the new films, except maybe Rogue One.
            I just think it’s so bad now it’s very difficult to take seriously as a diehard SW fan.
            But you are correct, the issue here is you shouldn’t have to go to a book or something to understand something about the movie so that you can understand it. That should be pretty obvious to TLJ apologists.
            It’s also disheartening to see people that liked TLJ to think people that don’t are just trolls or can’t except change and blah blah blah.
            Well I had an open mind for years with all this TLJ was the final straw.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            I mean, I like the last Jedi. Of course there are problems with it, and I don’t consider people who don’t like it to be trolling.

            My qualm is that there’s just so much older canon. Don’t get me wrong, I love that, because I can just read the books I want to read, and have a coherent timeline, with all the major pieces. My timeline of the clone wars is vastly different than the canon Star Wars. But I still like what Disney has produced this far, as a supplement. Just please don’t call me a TLJ apologist, because in my mind, I don’t have anything to be sorry about 🙂 I liked a Star Wars movie

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Think I’m about done here. I would love intelligent conversation with opposing viewpoints, but instead have mostly just encountered name-calling, have had my intelligence questioned multiple times (I’ll stick with the PhD programme acceptance letter I received last week as the judge of that one), and keep getting lumped in with every other “TLJ apologist” as if we all agree with everything and behave in the exact same way. I have yet to encounter someone who dislikes TLJ willing or able to articulate a view that doesn’t rely the concepts “stupid, plot-holes, destroy/ruin/etc” to attack anything about TLJ from every angle, no matter how implausible.

            Is there a way to contact someone individually though disqus? I have some thoughts I’d like to get your opinion on.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            I haven’t found one yet unfortunately. Congratulations on your PhD!

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Lol, wow, Twitter. Maybe it’s time…

          • Has Been Kenobi

            I know I’m sorry ????

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Well, it’s better than posting an email address here… 🙂

          • Has Been Kenobi

            yeah I thought about creating an email address exclusively for this purpose. But that seems a bit crazy.

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Let’s be cryptic, are you familiar with IGUSW or TAOSWF?

          • Has Been Kenobi

            …..no I am not

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            FB groups I’m active in. Was going to direct you to one of my posts.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Ok that works! I’ll take a look

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            Igrewupstarwars

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Yep found it.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Looks like a fun group!

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            It is, but it’s definitely focused on the past

          • Has Been Kenobi

            I may not stay toooo too long

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Ok. Found IGUSW

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            I agree completely, we shouldn’t have to find answers in a book. It especially bothers me in regard to the state of the galaxy after the seemingly complete and final victory in ROTJ that we find in TFA.

          • WeenieBeenie

            You are right! But it makes the film horribly, terribly, inconceivably wrong!!! RUINED Star Wars.

          • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

            While I respect to disagree, but really hope I this doesn’t mean that it’s ruined the experience of all of Star Wars for you. AOTC sort of did that for me, I grew ashamed of SW and walked away from the hobby. I missed out 90% of the toys between AOTC and the trailer release for TFA (and the toys from that period were really awesome). Thankfully, I didn’t sell what I had, just packed it up. But, if you decide you wanna sell your toys cheap, let me know. 😉

        • Has Been Kenobi

          I’m gonna side with my fellow Kenobi username over here, the evidence supports this.

        • Nick Dickens

          Well if the Star Wars book accompanying the film says that’s what Luke was doing I believe that.

          In all honestly it’s easy to see it in the film. His job in this cycle of his life is over. He’s using the Force more strongly than ever before and now he’s ready to be one with the Force.

          I’ll leave the last word to the best man.

          “See you around kid.”

      • Super Amigo

        Reading the entry of the official book, there’s no other logical possible explanation that the one our friend gives us right here at the top of this conversation.

        The book is inescapably clear about the meaning of the moment.

        Now the deconstruction of the character is complete.

      • Daniel Preece

        Not true. The revealed ideas of Lucas were NOT what Johnson made. Lucas had Luke “meditating.” Meditating is NOT what Luke was doing.

    • shane

      Yes sir. That’s how it is too.

  • Darth Eddie

    If Luke had to sacrifice himself before Episode IX I’m glad it was by becoming one with the Force and not being cut down in a lightsaber duel with his nephew or some other main character. Watching him disappear OT-style and his cloak flop down onto the rock was one of the genuine shocks of TLJ and something I couldn’t have seen coming and never thought would happen, especially this early in the Sequel Trilogy.

    Is it how I’d have had Luke end his mortal life? Maybe. Maybe not. But it sure beats seeing him have a lightsaber blade cut into his body or have him go up in an heroic explosion aboard a Resistance fighter or some other spaceship. Luke went the way his two Masters did. By offering himself up to the Force to save his friends and loved ones and ending his physical existence on his own terms.

    TLJ has its major problems and huge nitpicks, but that’s not really one of them for me.

    • Has Been Kenobi

      Yeah that scene was so powerful. I like the way you put that

    • DarthDoonald

      I coulda done without the force heart attack. I would have rather him died holding off kylo long enough for them to escape. Oh well there is more wrong with this movie than his death.

      Actually you know what I would have bought the force heart attack. If he was actually there repelling all those at-gorilla blasters. And then had to hold off kylo after he was already wiped. But hey that’s just me.

      • Daniel Preece

        Yeah, TLJ was too cute for its own good. Plus, zero foreshadowing. That kinda thing needs a set up, as in Luke having health problems during Rey’s training. But that requires real writing, which TLJ sorely lacked.

  • Super Amigo

    I can’t take away the feeling that Disney is not just adding their stories to the current episodes, they are trying to build their trilogy OVER them, by way of replacing the older Star Wars with their new own Star Wars.

    In a way it’s like Kylo’s speech to Rey about leaving the past behind. I think that speech is allegorist, it means something beyond the boundaries of the movie: That’s Disney agenda right there in front of our eyes. It’s a confession.

    As is the whole Poe, Finn, Rose subplot: It’s a message for fans about not to question or contradict the decisions adopted by the people in charge. They know better, have more information and that’s why they are in charge. You’d do well by following and accepting the chosen path. They are CEOs, they are superior.

    Star Wars was NEVER about those messages; it was about revolution, natural leadership and confidence in the companion next to you, not above you.

    Disney is making a great effort to make their Star Wars the only Star Wars. That’s the sensation I have.

    The prequels, they just choose to ignore them, they are not a threat for their new Empire. But the OT, those are the true menace. Not only are those movies some of the most iconic, they also have the most loyal following imaginable: a legion of zealots ready to defend them by cape and sword.

    So they are resorting to millennials as their supporters by including characters molded exactly by the image of their ideals and dreams and create stories in which the classic characters are losers, stupid, tired old men whose only desire is to die just to make room for the new, improved Star Wars for the new era.

    • ExarKun777

      Same feelings here.

    • Has Been Kenobi

      That’s how I felt after TFA. I was trepidation’s that they would just remake the trilogy beat for beat. Personally I thought the last Jedi was a change of pace, and while they are still trying to make Disney Star Wars the only starwars, at least they’re trying new story threads

      • Daniel Preece

        Trying something “new” is not a universal good. Using that phrase with TLJ sounds to me like saying “now that you’ve won the Decathalon, how about trying something new like being a quadruple amputee.” Er, no. Not the kind of “new” that makes things better.

        • Has Been Kenobi

          Or the brain surgeon saying “I’ve done this operation so many times, I want to try something new!” ???? great point.

          But without new things in Star Wars, we would not have the glory that is Ray Park as darth mail with a double bladed lightsaber, or TCW, or Sith lightning.

    • Nick Dickens

      Methinks you may be reading too much into it, but you raise some good points. Many of them aren’t negative I feel as the young often think the older generations are rather stupid or ignorant at times as they fail to see what they’ve lived through.

      • Super Amigo

        My imagination knows no limits in order to troll the new trilogy.

        You felt some points aren’t negative? Then I’m afraid my post is a failure!

        • Nick Dickens

          I didn’t take them as negative in that you made your argument in a positive way and I understood those arguments and can actually agree with them… from a certain pint of view. 🙂

          • Super Amigo

            Phewww! For a second I thought I made an involuntary positive remark about the new trilogy films.

          • Nick Dickens

            There’s nothing wrong in liking stuff if you like it and everyone else doesn’t.

        • Daniel Preece

          They were pretty straight forward to me. No ambiguity.

    • Daniel Preece

      Amigo, you are 100% CORRECT. By reproducing (in inferior form, of course) all the beloved elements of the OT, Disney/Kennedy are tearing off Lucas’s nameplate and putting on their own. Like Death Stars? Here’s ours. Like Han’s Jacket? Here’s ours. X-wings? Love triangles? The Force? On and on straight through. The twist is, Disney/KK’s versions are all in millennial style and gawd do they SUCK hard. NOT ONE THING about he sequels matches or surpasses anything from the OT. (Bash the pt all you want, but it had better elements such as Jedi lightsaber fights in their prime, and it immersed us more deeply into the political backstory of SW.)

      And it’s working. I have NEVER before heard any of the pure hate for the OT that I’m reading right now. To defend TLJ, these millennials (and older allies) are TRASHING everything about the OT just to prop up a bad movie. Why? Best I can tell it’s simply because they “liked it.” And this revisionist “analysis” of the OT is grotesquely skewed to absurd proportions. Blaming the Jedi, calling them cowards, etc. It’s utterly ridiculous. And no amount of fact will budge them.

      KK doesn’t know, or doesn’t care, what she’s doing to the Star Wars franchise. But she does know she wants a different SW and a different SW audience. And she’s luring them in with abominable emo millennial dopplegangers.

    • BlueSaber

      I honestly can’t express how spot on your analysis is. I said the EXACT same thing about this being Millennial bait. My pretentious Millennial cousin tried to justify his claims that this was the best Star Wars yet. It’s laughable. LAUGHABLE. Their agenda is so thinly veiled that it is practically shouting at you in the theater while watching this trash. All the men are dumb and make dumb, brash decisions. True to real life? Sure, sometimes, but this was OVERT. We got not one, not two, but THREE female leads to help win the day and a token Asian plain female because diversity. As if Holdo’s points about Poe weren’t clear enough, we got Leia ganging up on him as well to pound the point home, men are hot-headed idiots! Holdo’s character was clearly “invented” just for that feminist, Kathy Kennedy junk agenda.

      Let’s now get to Rey….supposedly word has it she “trained” on Ahch-To….as in, had a few philosophical conversations with Luke and a tickling with a plant leaf. Rey hasn’t trained a day in her life with the Force or a lightsaber and suddenly knows how to swing it and use the Force better than Luke ever did. Luke trained, Anakin trained, all the Jedi trained, and Rey does NOTHING. NOTHING. Once again, the typical Millennial message: we can teach ourselves, the past doesn’t matter, we know better than adults and we don’t have to EARN anything. Nothing, absolutely nothing was EARNED in The Last Jedi.

      The worst part is that the old and male characters are constantly underrepresented and mistreated in this trilogy. Disney wants to FORCE their new cast down our throats and send any semblance of the OT to the coffin. Disney is so frightened and scared that the “Legacy” (unreal stupid nickname, coined by Emperor Kennedy herself) characters will take over a film and overshadow the poor new cast! Heaven forbid that a 60 yr old Jedi still has a story to tell. Heaven forbid these poor Millennials can’t identify with a character unless they are 20-somethings spitting out tongue-in-cheek, mile-a-miunute dialogue with the most obviously cheap humor i.e. 21 Jump Street. Kennedy and Disney are SO frightened that their product will always be inferior to the original creativity of Lucas’s that they are intentionally stifling the original characters so their stories can’t continue to clash with their own. It’s plainly obvious. Any other series would have embraced having original characters return and play big roles. Mark Hamill and Luke Skywalker BOTH deserved so much more than this blip of a movie gave them.

      • Super Amigo

        Thank you friend.

        In time, after all the marketing hoopla settles down and the dust gets away from people’s eyes, things will go back where they belong.

        The OT can not be denied: it’s a powerful universal tale of heroes, hope and optimism that trascends space and time.

        The new trilogy is a product of its moment that won’t stand the test of time. When the artificial values and empty messages this movie is promoting in a superficial way would have become a memory of some long gone ridiculous decade, a new generation will be again fascinated by Lucas’s timeless story.

        The 49% at RT hints that Disney won’t have an easy job from now on. They want to fight against windmills? Be my guest.

  • Joshua Decker

    Kind of a big ol’ nothing burger.

  • ShipGirlLover

    They had to off Luke how they dud, as Kylo becomes irredeemable story wise if he kills Han AND Luke.

    • Daniel Preece

      Does anyone really care if Kylo gets redeemed at this point?

      • ShipGirlLover

        He’s the only interesting and non cardboard character in this mess of a trilogy, so yes, I do.

        Kylo is pretty much the only reason I’m even looking forward to IX< given we all know Rey will just roll him and the Knights of Ren herself with maybe a small scratch on her arm to show for it.

  • Nick Dickens

    Floating boulders? That’s it? Hardly an earth moving revelation is it.

    Sorry! Couldn’t resist.

    I feel like that Trooper, “move along. Move along, nothing to see here.”

    • Daniel Preece

      I don’t see how it would help matters, he’s still dead.
      What this story does do, however, is suggest that Johnson was either dishonest or making it up as he went. I get the feeling Mark was told he’d have a much better role than the one they gave him.

      • Nick Dickens

        We’ll never know and with a multi billion dollar franchise at stake nothing wouldn’t have been signed off at the last minute or made up as they went along.

  • WeenieBeenie

    Overall, Last Jedi is an insult to Star Wars. It is a planned and directed insult to the Baby boomers, and especially Generation X. It’s not that they killed off our heroes , Han and Luke, it’s that they told us that they didn’t matter. That they were broken old men who failed in their naive attempt to make the universe a better place. They were broken and sad and lost and without hope. There was no generational passing of the baton, and no joy, as there was for Luke and old Ben. It’s telling the post Vietnam generation you failed, Vietnam happened, watergate happened, you thought you could make the world different and now we have trump and Star Wars has kylo ren. Rather than the generations coming together and healing rifts there was no healing, just collapse and death and knowing Luke didn’t matter. The fact that he is a “symbol” for the future doesn’t change that that symbol was based on a myth, a falsehood, and that Luke died a broken man w no hope. This was antithetical to Lucas vision of healing the generational 60s divide and bringing hope. The world is already bad enough, I don’t need Star Wars to offer no hope for change. How appropriate for our times that Disney felt the need to tear down old cultural heroes in order to establish new ones? Moreover, to Keep Leia alive as a character when Carrie Fisher died, is metaphorically akin to holding onto her corpse. Its crass and gross. Leia should have died in this film. As Mark Hamill said, The Last Jedi is NOT his or our Luke. We get the message – move on and let go of the past. Okay, we will. Last Jedi equals last Star Wars. It’s over. We are going to take our memory of Luke and han and leia as they should be and you millenials can have Rose and Finn. It’s over. New hope is gone. Peace out. A long time Star war fan letting it go and not coming back.

    • Has Been Kenobi

      I mean, the original trilogy just killed off obi Wan Kenobi
      , the hero of the prequels.
      The problem is people wanted a continuation of the stories of Han, Luke, and Leia, even if that’s not what Star Wars was about. Anakin was the main focus for the prequels, Luke was the focus of the originals, and Kylo is a focus of the sequels. Heck even that title of sequel trilogy is inaccurate, because these movies are about a different generation, with the originals as cameos. Their story is finished, with the happy ending and the parties. The time has come for a new generation of Star Wars, with new characters, conflicts, and even ideologies. just like there was a time for the generation that enjoys the prequels. Star Wars was never consistently for one age demographic

      • WeenieBeenie

        Then they shouldn’t have had Han, Luke, and Leia in the film at all. Their roles weren’t cameos. They were heavily featured and used to build up audiences who loved the original trilogy. Its not that they characters had to die to further the plot, its that they assassinated their characters and made them sad, broken characters. Obi Wan may have have failed with Anakin, but he was never broken or sad or defeated. Luke was destroyed as a character and it was done with intent. I found TLJ to be a very mean spirited film as it consciously sought to destroy old mythos and characters. And that was unnecessary but so typical of this moment that the old must be utterly destroyed and pulled down from its pedestal to make way for the new. A very mean spirited Star Wars now.

        • Has Been Kenobi

          I would disagree and say that obi wan was a defeated individual. He goes from leading armies to drawing in the dirt, of course he would have some psychological baggage.

          And what’s so mean spirited? Did you not see the way they used luke’s story arc to have him gain redemption, to not only become more than his failings, but to become the legend every Fan imagines him to be? Didn’t feel very mean spirited to me. No more mean spirited when they killed off darth Vader at the end of return of the Jedi. Or obi wan in a new hope. Characters who if you watch the movies chronologically you grew to enjoy over the course of three prequel movies.

          • WeenieBeenie

            Obi Wan was full of mirth, resolve, and hope. He didn’t give up for a moment. Luke was sad, broken, suicidal (apparently!!!!), and had given up on the Force, the Jedi, and any hope for change. That, my friend, is the definition of a mean spirited film. Luke’s legend is based on a falsehood, a myth, a projection. The meaning was clear. Luke is great only in ur minds, the real Luke was a sad broken down old man who died alone on a rock staring at the setting sun dreaming of something he never was. I think maybe you are mistaking the idea of a character’s death for how they lived. Killing off a character is acceptable (though maybe killing off Han and Luke was a bit much) but killing their core character and what the franchise stood for is not. This film killed the spirit of Star Wars. I know your generation likes it and it will continue, but I think for my generation we are really done and watch what this story has become with great sadness.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            By the literal definition of the word he was a defeated individual. The Jedi has fallen and he was partially responsible.
            Hey look at that? The above paragraph could refer to Luke or Obi Wan. 😀 notice the parallels?

            What is it the franchi$e stands for, in your opinion? I’m legitimately interested in your take on this, cause I have my own view as to ‘what does Star Wars mean to you?’ And for clarification, my generation grew up with the prequels, thank you very much 😉

          • WeenieBeenie

            Not at all. 1. Obi wan never “shut himself off” from the Force, instead he avidly worked at it to move beyond the martial to become more powerful than you can possibly imagine as a spirit guide for Luke–he spent twenty years in preparation to become Luke’s teacher and guide; 2. Obi wan never tried to assassinate someone in the middle of the night, a relative even; 3. Obi Wan never considered suicide and dressed in his robes to kill himself. His becoming one with the Force was an act of sacrifice for others and not out of despair, but out of hope (okay so Luke does that at the very end, but look…his character was destroyed before we even get there). 4. Obi Wan handled the lightsaber a more elegant weapon from a more civilized age with reference while the director actually forced Hamill to say the ubiquitious derision—laser sword!!!
            4. Obi Wan never had pathetic milk-sex with a green cow!!!! Luke had nothing to pass on and teach Rey. She already knew everything and is a such a baseline Mary Sue character. He was redundant, outdated, irrelelevant (just as Snook was). That’s antithetical to what Lucas hoped to achieve. For my generation, it was about healing the rift between the 60s generation and the WWII generation, about making one generation at peace in harmony with an older generation, and about the idea that when all seems bleak and dark (the 70s were a very dark and depressing time) you could find hope. It was about imagining that instead of being the Empire, as the U.S. was in Vietnam, you could imagine yourself as the primitive rebels (From Viet Cong to Ewoks, though it should have been Wookie as the initial idea had been) and you could imagine defeat of a technological terror where spirit mattered more than technology. It was a wonderful mythos and TLJ did everything it could to destroy it. Its not that they wanted to write their own story, its that they set out to destroy the old. Unforgivable. A mean spirited film.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            To start of I love your final point about the rift healing. 🙂 I’ll admit as a younger fan that undertone was lost on me. Thank you for sharing that.

            And yeah the cow scene was weird. And uncomfortable.

            Of course Rey is a Mary Sue. So is Padme, but no one ever mentions it. They’re too busy pointing out how much Anakin and Luke are Mary Sues. R2 D2 is even a Mary Sue. Star Wars is full of Mary Sues, and I’m ok with that.

            On the whole your points are very valid. Thank you.

          • WeenieBeenie

            Nope. Luke struggled, failed at various points (the cave, the xwing) and showed progression and needed to learn over time (four years of character time). He was never a Mary Sue. Rey is something we have not seen before–she can defeat jedi masters and sith knighs and move boudlers without any training at all. But I am glad you saw my point and see we healed a generational rift!

          • Has Been Kenobi

            If you read the old EU, Luke is very much a Mary Sue. Doesn’t struggle with anything.
            Rey ‘defeated’ a dark Jedi that didn’t want to kill her, and a Jedi master who hasn’t used the force in 6 years. She’s as much of a Mary Sue as Luke is.

          • WeenieBeenie

            no, no…you are not understanding the term Mary Sue. By the time of the EU stories, Luke is a full blown Jedi Master and has gone through his trials and tribulations. Mary Sue refers to a novice that can do anything–Luke progressed, evolved, tried and failed before he became the Jedi Knight and then Master. Anyways, we agree on generational healing. As for the film, its your generation’s film now…I don;t think my generation wants anything to do with it.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            I stand corrected.
            And yes, agreement is good 🙂

            …so Luke was a Mary Sue in a new hope 😉

          • WeenieBeenie

            lol…noooooo…three years later he could barely the lightsaber two feet away from him in the snow when his life defended on it. Rey is Mary Sue Queen! lol

          • Has Been Kenobi

            We can at least agree Rey is a total Mary Sue 😀

          • Jimmy Griffin

            You can almost draw a parallel between fans who hate TLJ because of the way Luke was portrayed and now are done with Star Wars, and Luke in TLJ. Luke helped defeat the Emperor and redeem Anakin Skywalker, he had a great victory and thought it signaled the return of the Jedi and final triumph of the light. Then, saw that the darkness was still out there, even in someone he was very close to. Luke was disappointed, he withdrew, he gave up. Likewise, some fans think that the Luke we saw at the end of ROTJ would be able to grow in strength and power and be able to over come any further obstacle. That Luke would never give up, he would never suffer any real setback or defeat. But he did, and now they are angry and hurt. They are done with SW just like Luke (thought he) was done with being the hero. But Luke wasn’t done with being the hero, he saw that whatever personal setbacks he had suffered he could still be what the galaxy needed. In TLJ, Luke isn’t broken, not really, he’s hurt; but he heals.

          • WeenieBeenie

            He can suffer a defeat, but he doesn’t crawl off to an Ireland isle to die. That’s not in his character. He can even die as a character, but he can’t be broken and quit and give up and be defeated. Why is that so hard for you guys to get that???

          • Jimmy Griffin

            As I said, I don’t think he was ever really broken. He thought he was broken, he thought he was done and defeated; but he wasn’t. Rey came along and showed him that there were still people who believed in him. Luke rose up to that. I’m not saying “Rey saved Luke”, but Rey did help Luke save himself.

          • Daniel Preece

            I’m afraid some of the older generation have bought into the new age hippy dippy philosophies of we all end up exposed as failures. That to scratch a good person is to expose a hypocrite. That inside that white picket fence is not Andy Taylor but Ted Bundy. It’s not enough for the new generation to take over, they can only fulfill themselves by discrediting what came before.
            .
            It’s the easy way to dominance. Instead of working harder, being more heroic, or achieving more, it’s just easier to be a revisionist and tear down the reputation of one’s predecessors. Or as the ST puts it “kill the past.”
            .
            Some of our generation are okay with that. Maybe it’s because it somehow validates their own shortcomings, I don’t know.

          • WeenieBeenie

            That’s one thing that made Star Wars great–imagining people greater than ourselves even if they are flawed. But still they struggled, no matter how dark things had become. This film forgets all that–its for another generation. I just wish they didn’t feel the need to destroy our heroes in order to establish theirs. It wasn’t necessary–accept it got us to spend our dollars on the 2 films and merchandise, well no longer! At least for me. I hope most old school original trilogy fans refuse to see Episode 9. A box office bomb is the only message Disney might hear.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            I just feel like you didn’t see the conclusion of Luke’s arc in the last Jedi. Spoiler alert, he becomes pretty heroic at the end.

          • WeenieBeenie

            Okay, kid. Nice sarcasm. Eh, he sacrificed himself but the message was clear–he was no longer relevant to this world and his entire legacy is based on an untrue myth. He never was the hero he dreamed of being. Kind of poetic, I suppose, but also not what we want out of a Star Wars film, and to get there they had to do so many things to Luke’s character–so it was character assassination and debasement, and then a final act of suicide that created a false projection of him that becomes his legend, based entirely on a myth. From a certain point of view….hated it!

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Fair enough. I’m sorry you feel that way. :/ but I can see where you’re coming from.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Why can’t he? He gave up on training with Yoda in a heartbeat because he thought he could help somebody. He gave up on his family’s farm after his only family was burned to a crisp.

          • WeenieBeenie

            Did you just argue for the family farm???!

          • Has Been Kenobi

            That moisture ain’t gonna farm itself.

          • WeenieBeenie

            You just came up with a GREAT idea for a profitable tee shirt!

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Owen and Beru just bought the farm.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Great way of putting it 🙂

          • Jimmy Griffin

            By the way, I always appreciate the perspective of someone who grew up on the PT.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Thanks. I feel like I’m in an odd place as a Star Wars fan.

          • Jimmy Griffin

            One of the interesting things about SW fandom is how there are basically different “generations” of SW fans and how where/when you came into the story can shape your perspective. I was a young child when the OT was coming out (born in late ’76) so I don’t remember a time when SW wasn’t around; it was just always there shaping my life because I don’t remember a time when I wasn’t a fan. Then, when the PT came out, I was a young adult, just about to get out of college; also a very formative time. I never really felt the need to reject the PT because it came to me during a very active and vibrant part of my life and the movies are very active and vibrant to me. Now the ST comes to me when I am a middle aged parent, having had opportunity to experience loss and disappointment in life (but also good things) and it really speaks to me in that sense and in the sense of passing things on to a new generation.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            That’s an interesting way of looking at it. I grew up with the special editions and the phantom menace. Attack of the clones was the first one I saw in theater, and at the time loved all the prequels (by zipping through all the boring dialogue). Now I’m able to come to newer movies for a fresh take on Star Wars. I’m not as die hard for the originals, so I think it makes me a little bit freeer to just enjoy all things Star Wars 🙂

            I’m sorry for the losses and disappointments. Hopefully the good has outweighed them.

          • Daniel Preece

            Your posts are so confused on this. At NO POINT has anyone ever said Luke would or should “never suffer any real setback or defeat.” I don’t understand why some of you keep misunderstanding this on such a colossal scale. Why is the concept of the epic hero so impossible to understand? It’s been understood easily for 10,000 years, but now in just one generation, it is beyond their grasp.
            .
            You confuse “defeat” with “giving up.” There is a universe of difference between the two. A hero can lose, but he can never be beaten. Does that make any sense to you? For a franchise now obsessed with “hope” they sure sucked it straight out of the (male) OT heroes. A hero stays true to the cause. He can be knocked down a thousand times and still he gets back up. THIS version of Luke got knocked down and then LAID DOWN. They might as well have turned him into a fall-down drunk in a gutter.

          • Jimmy Griffin

            Luke did get back up. He suffered a setback, he was on the verge of giving up, but he didn’t. He came through in the end.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Giving up is an ultimate defeat. The only opponent is you. No one makes you give up, you choose it yourself. Luke giving up allows him to conquer the ultimate opponent; his own demons.

          • Daniel Preece

            That couldn’t have been said better! The sequels are “mean spirited,” for sure. It’s a big dump on the very concept of heroism.

          • Its interesting that you are only looking at the part of the movie/Luke’s character that makes it look like you are correct, but not the part that proves you wrong (as highlighted by @Hasbeenkenobi:disqus)

          • WeenieBeenie

            the mere fact that you think either side can be right demonstrates how bad this film and its characterization was. The glaring points I raise are unforgettable and they were designed to strike just that cord. Destroy the past, kill it if you have to. That’s what Disney wanted…to kill and destroy all that Lucas had created just so they could audaciously put forward their own story with their own characters. I am quite sure that none of what TLJ was happened until after Lucas gave his Charlie Rose interview saying that FA was like ANH. That pissed them off something awful! Even if the script had been finished, I am sure they changed elements after that interview (like Luke and the boulders to “suicide” Jedi Luke). So they purposefully stuck their thumb in the eye of Lucas and the older fans. And now I think they are regretting it–and after Solo flops and Episode 9 may recede in popularity they ma really regret it. But they put it to film and its entirely too late. I hope SW fans unite to just walk away from this Disneyfied franchise. I know I am.

          • I find your reasoning to be juvenile. As if a group of professional film makers, producers, and writers are going to conspire to use their multi-million dollar movie of one of their biggest franchise and make impactful story changes just to spite one person’s opinion…oh and of course they also conspire against you the older fan because theyre fine with risking the financial success of their movie just to trigger you. Of course if Disney’s goal was to drive fans like you away, I dont believe they are doing a good enough job, as youre still here.

          • WeenieBeenie

            Oh, my friend. You haven’t travelled with powerful people with egos, have you? That’s what people do–at all levels. It gets very personal and it gets very ego driven. They will deny it, but then they put it in the script plainly for all to see. If you know anything about markets for products of this kind, I and my generation are irrelevant to the franchise (as irrelevant as Snoke and Skywalker). Its the youth market they want to capture–that’s where the money is. I won’t go to see this movie 5 times like I did in the late 70s, but you and your generation probably will. Your final comment is as nasty as these new films. Set for a less civilized generation at a more ugly time. The Dark Times. ; )

          • I dont care if you have seen this behavior first hand. Your personal experiences do not constitute the the whole of reality, just as your opinions do not equal facts. However for the first time your comment contained a statement that is neither subjective nor can be debated: They want to capture the youth market. That has been true since the OT and since the PT…That is definitely their number one market and always has been. I dont know why it makes you so angry and now even though its always been that way.

          • WeenieBeenie

            Nah, marketing to kids like you doesn’t make me angry. The film itself made me angry because it destroyed characters that I cared about, and I am not alone….thankfully fans everywhere are outraged at TLJ. But doesn’t matter…SW and what it once represented is ruined…regardless the Disney machine will churn on and pump out more low-end sausage for SW films and merchandise. OT fans will just have to remember a better time when SW mattered.

          • Again thats your opinion. Please dont think that means its a fact. You can choose to believe that the movie “destroyed” those characters, but there are just as many fans that would not say that and may even say the exact opposite (thats their opinion too). And its true that many people think the way you do, but that does not make your opinion any closer to being a fact. I sincerely dont mind yours or anyone’s opinion about the movie and I dont think youre wrong or right, its just annoying to see people like you talk like they are speaking the truth and fact about the state of the Star Wars franchise, just because they didnt like how a particular character’s story turned out.

          • WeenieBeenie

            I don’t think you are correct that there are just as many fans who think what you do. A scant look at Rotten Tomatoes or Star Wars message boards will tell you that the long time fans are pretty upset. I am not alone. We are the majority. You are the minority–and dwindling. Both are, of course, responses to a film and neither are fact, but what is a fact is that there is a large percentage (I think a majority) who are very upset about TLJ and with Disney. I think low ticket sales and bad reaction to Solo (which will be a bust) and Episode 9 (which won’t sell as well as either Ep. 7 or 8) will bear this out.

          • WeenieBeenie

            A scant look at Rotten Tomatoes and Star Wars message boards will confirm this fact–you, my friend, are in the minority. The majority of us hate this film. Not just dislike it, but loathe it. Mostly for the reasons I list. Certainly, both points of views are opinions, but yours stands in the minority (I think). At best, its a deeply divided fan response and those on the negative side are so incensed that they claim that they are walking away. I know, in my case, that’s no idle threat. Time will tell, but I predict that Solo will be a bomb and Episode 9 won’t make what Eps. 7 & 8 make and it may have as little as half the audience. Its a dark time for Star Wars. Star Wars is dead.

          • WeenieBeenie

            Not just my opinion. I’d say that the number of fans who don’t like TLJ and share my opinion are in the majority. Your opinion is the minority, I would guess. Solo will be a flop and Episode 9 will surprise Disney when it gets about half the audience for Force Awakens.

          • WeenieBeenie

            Well, my friend, my opinion is now shared by a majority of fans, I think. Yours is the minority opinion. The failure of Solo and a diminished audience for Episode 9 will bear that out. Sorry that the truth annoys you. Don’t worry though, Disney will beat the Star Wars carcass like a drum and churn out more low-grade sausage films like TLJ.

          • Super Amigo

            Don’t underestimate the power of Hollywood’s egos.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            So what you’re saying is, what I told you is true, from a certain point of view

            😀

          • WeenieBeenie

            The fact that you think both can exist demonstrate the degree to which TLJ is a film filled with continuity and character errors. For my part, what I raise are unfogettable and consciously so scenes that seek to utterly destroy the character of Luke Skywalker. His suicide attempt at the beginning, attempting to kill his nephew in his sleep, being a broken down old man, devoid of hope, failing to teach Tey anything at all, just total and complete character assassination. It is the exact opposite of what Lucas sought to do with Obi Wan.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            I can appreciate where you come from. I think if i had grown up in a different time I would agree more fully, but as it is I never really got as invested with Luke’s character, what with there being lots of characters produced in the EU around the time of the prequels which I grew more attached to. Such as obi wan Kenobi 🙂

          • WeenieBeenie

            ah, my friend…but that’s what was so cool about Star Wars originally. We loved Obi Wan Kenobi too! That was the generational bridge. Made me like my grandparents more! Like the older generation had some amazing tale to offer (and they were the WWII generation, so they usually did!) But our Kenobi was the fine and magisterial but warm Guinness, not the clumsy and overly stiff Ewan McGregor….”you’re move” (as he foolishly points two fingers to the sky in some weirdly obscene fight gesture).

          • Has Been Kenobi

            I mean, I really like Ewan McGregor as obi wan. He feels like a young and brash Sir Alec Guinness. One of my favorite obi wan Moments comes from the revenge of the Sith novelization where the Jedi discuss why obi wan should face grievous, instead of more powerful Jedi like Mace Windu. Obviously it’s from a book, but it’s portraying that version of Kenobi.

            I mean, I think Star Wars has always been pretty cool ????

          • WeenieBeenie

            I am just kidding with you. I actually like Ewan McGregor, but I did find his Obi Wan really stiff and dialogue bad, but a lot of that was probably Lucas. Towards the end of Revenge of the Sith, I thought Ewan finally got into the role in a more comfortable way. But then he had to ponderously stroke his beard nonstop and say such unclever things as “You’re move,” which I don’t think Alex Guinness would have ever said. But I do think Ewan looked the part and probably can deliver a better performance than he did for the prequels. But one other point, the voice actor for Rebels really nailed Obi Wan in a way that was more connected to the Alec Guinness portrayal, and so if they could find someone to do more Guinness and less McGregor for the role, then that might be more interesting.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            James Arnold Taylor 😀 he also does pretty well in the 2003 clone wars miniseries and TCW.

          • Super Amigo

            Alec Guinness always praised Luca’s general storyline, but despised the dialogues.

            He said he rewrote most of his lines himself.

          • WeenieBeenie

            What happened to our other exchanges, Has Been? Have we been deleted??

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Oh dear I hope not :/ this was a great conversation. I think theyre still visible if you go to the actual JTA pages. Sometimes when I do the ‘view in discussion’ button on Disqus it won’t show everything.

          • Super Amigo

            Yoda and Obi Wan both had their mission and purpose in their exiles.

            They did a tactical retreat, they never gave up, they were waiting.

            If they looked like they were broken or crazy, it was just a manipulatory tactic to achieve their goals

          • WeenieBeenie

            Not just waiting…they were learning about the Force beyond the purely martial aspects. They spent twenty years learning how to become one with the Force so the they guide Luke. They never gave up and NEVER lost touch with the Force.

        • Daniel Preece

          Great point. The deaths are secondary to the treatment of the characters. Heroes dying as punks sucks. That’s how I see it. It’s pure character assassination. Even Han Solo. Han had been redeemed in ROTJ–from a selfish scoundrel to a selfless general of the rebellion. Ford wanted Han to die to complete the transformation, that he should die as the hero he became. Abrams un-redeems Han by turning him back into a selfish scoundrel, a deadbeat husband and absentee dad. Pure rubbish.

          • WeenieBeenie

            Yeah–seeing Han as a 60/70-something scoundrel and in a failed marriage ruined his character and ain’t exactly inspiring. Being a scoundrel at 36 is cool, being a “scoundrel” in your 70s only means you get to the Salad Bar first and no one will sit at your table for Bingo! Broken Han. Sad Han. Only his wookie can stand him.

          • Super Amigo

            Agree 100%.

            It’s not about the deaths, it’s about the deconstructions.

      • Daniel Preece

        You do realize when Lucas killed off Obi-Wan there was no “hero of the prequels,” right? No fanbase for the character, no established background, or any of that? It was the first movie and Lucas had no idea how well liked his characters would be. We can tell this from Ford’s request to kill Han in ROTJ. Lucas flatly rejected the idea. The character was too popular. So we cannot fairly judge the death of Obi-Wan in the same light as other characters later on.

        • Has Been Kenobi

          Of course, but I’m looking at it as a case of storytelling. From start to finish, each saga treats the other trilogies’ beloved characters with a bit of indifference, when they aren’t necessary to the overall plot. The focus of each trilogy is a different character, and I’m sorry for the fans who wanted to see an extension of Luke’s story, but that’s not what you’re going to get. I’m glad Han and Leia and Luke were in the new movies, but they aren’t necessarily the main draw. I mean look at rogue one, the only returning characters they had were from the prequels (not counting darth Vader for some reason). I don’t watch rogue one to catch up on what jimmy smits’ character has been doing for the past 12 years. I watch it for the new story that’s presented.

          • Super Amigo

            Well… RO has Ponda Baba and Dr Evazan… 🙂

          • Has Been Kenobi

            Oh yeah. That was fun. Awkward, but fun.

  • Has Been Kenobi

    Didn’t obi wan basically commit suicide by Vader?

    Sorry to disappoint you, because I still like Star Wars 😀

  • ObiWanKenobiJibberish

    I’d point you to the opening pages of TFA visual dictionary, but we all know that’s just made up garbage.

  • BlueSaber

    The fact that we didn’t get to see see Luke use all his superior Force powers is inexcusable. Anyone please tell me that you wouldn’t rather see Luke actually GO to Crait, and before the Walkers had a chance to fire on him, he uses his immensely advanced Force powers and pulls one down into the next, setting off a domino effect and crippling every single one. Kylo then instructs this ship to fire, but Luke ignites his GREEN, yes GREEN lightsaber (moron Johnson), and deflects the shots into the wings, bringing Kylo’s ship sliding into the surface. Kylo emerges and does battle with his Uncle, giving Mark Hamill and us fans the lightsaber fight we ALL deserved. Some advancing ground units could have started firing at Luke, forcing him to retreat, but he deserved to live another day. Ridiculous that he didn’t.

    • Funtomaz

      As interesting as that would have been, there’s a problem with that. This would make Luke essentially the Superman of Star Wars. He would completely outshine and overpower any of the other characters. He already outshines any of the other characters in TLJ without doing any fantastic feats. This could have been only offset by a very powerful Snoke.
      But since Disney wants this trilogy to be about Rey and Kylo and not Luke vs Snoke, they had to either depower or get rid of Luke. Rian Johnson did the only logical thing within the context of the sequel trilogy, actually, getting rid of Luke somehow. At least he exited on his own terms and wasn’t cut down like a complete fool. Instead he made Kylo look foolish.

      Btw. on a related note, there’s this post release Q&A with the TLJ cast on YouTube. Only Adam Driver, Domnhall Gleeson, Gwendoline Christie and Laura Dern are absent.
      Mark Hamill received most of the questions from the audience. Rian Johnson is a close second. Daisy Ridley had maybe one or two questions. John Boyega had one question. Oscar Isaac had maybe one question. It was at times embarrassing to watch actually, because Benicio del Toro wasn’t asked anything (I believe he never even spoke once). Kelly Marie Tran received zero questions either. All the new cast combined received less questions than Mark Hamill. I wonder why that is…

      • BlueSaber

        Well, I’m not saying he wouldn’t be extremely taxed by his Force actions and need to retreat, much like Yoda in AOTC or ROTS. It would have been great to see Kylo and Luke trade Force powers and blades as well. Luke doesn’t need to be all-powerful, remember we have Daisy Ridley for that ; )

    • No thanks. Ive had my fill of that kind of Superman Jedi pageantry with the “Force Unleashed” series. Im fine with seeing someone like Yoda with all his 900 years of mastering of the force, still have to show a little bit strain and concentration to keep some relatively small debris from falling on Anakin and Obi-wan, without having Luke make him look like a two bit force user.

    • Has Been Kenobi

      I would love to see footage of that 🙂 nut it would flip the whole underdog vs the oppressor mentality by having Luke be able to take on the whole first order by himself. At what point does the rebellion with the big stick become the bully on the playground?

    • ShipGirlLover

      The problem is with Luke being so powerful there is literally not reason why he wouldn’t absolutely destroy the First Order and kill Kylo then and there.

      So if Luke himself had shown up then there is no reason for Rey or IX, because Kylo would be utter trash to Luke. Same reason why they had to off Snoke like they did, because again, Kylo and rey are trash compared to real Force users.

-Click HERE to return to the home page-

Channels

 

Follow Us

JTA Info

Affiliates

Hasbro

Gentle Giant

Sideshow Collectibles

Hot Toys

LEGO

Mattel

Disney

Disney Store

Acme Archives

Hallmark

Trading Cards

Store Reports

Research Droids Reviews

Visual Guides

Books & Novels

Convention News

Movie & TV News

Rants & Raves

Special Reports

       Facebook

       Instagram

       Pinterest

       Youtube

       RSS

Home

Contact

News Archives

Site Search

Image Use Policy

Privacy Policy

RDR Index

Visual Guide Index

Bantha Skull

Collector's Cantina

Jedi News

Star Wars Figuren

Star Wars New Zealand

ToyzMag

Star Wars is a Copyright and Trademark of LucasFilm LTD. This site is intended for informational purposes only, and is not in anyway associated with LFL. All Visual Guides, images, and content are the property of JediTempleArchives.com, © 2004-2018 and may not be reused without permission. Please do not direct link to any of the content on this web site. PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2004 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license. Click here for our complete Privacy Policy. Click here for our Image Use Policy. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.