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Chinese Fan: The Last Jedi Is An Insult To Your Intelligence

Website Cosmic Book News is reporting that China’s audience isn’t embracing The Last Jedi, with one huge Star Wars fan claiming the film insults one’s IQ. Check out the article and then come back and comment here!

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  • matt

    Strange that this is the film that’s getting all the backlash. The complaints in this article are the same sentiments I have towards The Force Awakens, yet it’s The Last Jedi that’s being punished for it.

    I stand by my original thought, that Rian Johnston did the best he could do given the polished t*rd he was handed by JJ Abrams. Because of the nonsensical plot holes and shallow story set up in TFA, The Last Jedi could never be “good”, but it as very enjoyable for what it was.
    Bare in mind also, that JJ served as the Executive Producer on this one too, (and he’s back for Disney’s version of IX).

    I don’t believe for a moment that Rian had the free reign that’s been claimed either.

    • Funtomaz

      My guess… some fans gave TFA the benefit of the doubt, being the first movie after the somewhat divisive sequels. But the same fans did lose their patience when TLJ did not play to their expectations.

      Executive producer title means little to nothing. Sure, it can mean something, but it probably means that Rian met JJ in an office and they talked for 5 minutes about if JJ had something in mind for Rey’s parents etc and JJ said “no, you just go ahead, I just make stuff up as I go along anyway” 😀

    • darthmo

      I believe you tow the Kennedy line which Disney supports or you get dumped. Johnson would have been getting red pen script corrections for sure from Kennedy and JJ.
      Have you read what Hamill thought about Trevorrow’s ideas for Luke in EpIX? Very interesting…

      • Tyler Frechette

        I have not, where can this be found?

        • darthmo

          Sorry, I can’t give you the direct article as it was a day I was looking at quite a few links. However he was saying that Trevorrow’s ideas for Luke in EpIX were interesting/exciting, that their opinions were more in sync regarding the character so It’s very interesting if this is true that Trevorrow was given the push.

    • Tyler Frechette

      Meh. Regardless, the result is pretty unforgivable. This new trilogy is trash. At least Rogue One was marvelous, and I do enjoy Rebels — mostly for Thrawn, who is NOT a Disney creation (go figure).

      • matt

        I echo those sentiments 🙂

  • Rivesjunctionite

    No thanks. I’m fine.

    • David Harrison

      What? You’re saying that you’re not interested in what a Chinese fan thinks of Star Wars? You crazy bro?

      • Jimmy Griffin

        LOL

  • I don’t think I lost IQ points after watching it. Maybe I should get it tested again.

    • People probably loose more IQ points after watching an hour of FOX or CNN.

      • JACKOFTRADZE

        “Loose” more?

      • I will give you CNN.

        • rebelsfangirl

          I saw some American CNN when I was over there on a business trip, it was AWFUL. I never really got the criticisms of CNN because international CNN is rather good, but the US version is just terrible.

          • Tyler Frechette

            They’re no better than paparazzi working for tabloids, it’s pathetic.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            There’s international CNN? Nice, maybe the outside world doesn’t have as much of a cynical look on America as stateside CNN does

            Note I say as much, not none ????

    • Truthbetold

      I got cancer from watching it

  • Has Been Kenobi

    I’m sorry, but wasn’t this the same country that made a detergent commercial where they stick a Black man in a washing machine to clean him into an Asian man? Forgive me if I don’t take china’s media opinions too terribly seriously

  • Jimmy Griffin

    China? Who asked them? The burning question here is: what do they think of it in Cambodia?

    • David Harrison

      Harsh – I bet the Chinese are really interested in your opinion on ‘Wolf Warrior 2’.

    • Funtomaz

      China will soon be the largest market for movies in the world. You do no want to lose out on the potential money made there, even if it’s only a 25% cut you get. China has 1.4 billion people. And the Chinese love movies. It’s a different culture, they have different tastes. They also eat rotten duck eggs. But that´’s their culture, nothing “wrong” about it. I bet the Chinese find quite a few things about western culture weird and laughable 🙂

      • Jimmy Griffin

        I guess to them rotten duck eggs are better than a 10 layer burrito with a bacon cheeseburger inside it and a side order of chili cheese fries and a Mt. Dew code red. That said, I would much rather have General Tso’s Chicken than a rotten duck egg.

      • Daniel Preece

        You “get it.” China matters more to the movie industry than Americans do. They’d drop us all to get 25% of the Chinese market.

  • Kinetic_Koala

    Okay, so I should read a single fan’s opinion that TLJ was an insult to my intelligence? I think I’ve read more nuanced opinions against TLJ than this.

    I’m beginning to think from the vast majority of articles posted to JTA that the TLJ is unwelcome here just as TFA was, too.

    *sarcasm before the anti-Disney Star Wars zealots nuke me down*

    • Captain America Trooper

      Two sure ways to get your blog noticed currently is to either say that TLJ is the best Star Wars movie ever or to say that it insults your intelligence. Who really cares what they print.

  • David Harrison

    I thought ‘Wolf Warrior 2’ was terrible if that’s of interest to any Chinese readers?

  • Darth Malous

    Didn’t Mike Tyson win an Oscar for Ip Man 3? Seriously though, it earned $70 million in its opening weekend in China. It’s a good flick and all, but it’s definitely different strokes for different folks. The cheesiness is off the charts in Ip Man from my perspective. I wouldn’t upset the Chinese market too much or figure prices might skyrocket like they did in the great action figure riot of ‘94.

  • Vincent Mercier

    Weird! I heard the very same comment from both an Italian and a Swedish fan! But an Egyptian man told us he did actually enjoy this movie. And to be honest, I just don’t mind what these people in their s*it hole countries think about TLJ. What is the point?

    • Caius

      Some how I don’t think emulating a moron like Trump is doing you any favours.

      • Vincent Mercier

        Absolutely.

    • Captain America Trooper

      Stable genius comment if I’ve ever heard one.

  • Hardcore F’n Mudd

    Shut your hole, Wang Chung!

  • CJ

    If the Chinese hate Star Wars it might explain all the terrible paint apps in our toys.

    • David Harrison

      Ha ha brilliant!

    • Jeff Wickson

      Nice post….and possibly true, LOL.

    • Funtomaz

      But paint apps have improved greatly in recent years! 😉

    • Xo Tica

      Don’t blame them, blame Hasbro’s penny pinching .

    • They should start just painting mustaches on everything, but when it comes to Lando they paint his mustache off, but they use the white people skin color to do it.

    • Nick Dickens

      Lol

  • JACKOFTRADZE

    Just another day in the age of “Perpetual Outrage”.

    While I agree with the random Chinese poster this article is the definition of trolling to generate clicks and discussion. A whole article devoted to one random persons opinion in China is supposed to count as a substantive article?

    • CJ

      I have a feeling this random Chinese person is going to turn out to be Mark Hamill.

      • JACKOFTRADZE

        After the Mouse Mob visited his house he has been very supportive. Threats will do that. Maybe this is his way at fighting back….good theory.

        • darthmo

          They threatened to cut off his other hand…

      • matt

        Wish I could upvote that twice!

  • Andy

    Yaknow it feels like saying I enjoy the sequels on here is toxic. I don’t have a problem with negative articles – I find others points of view interesting. But maybe the staff of JTA could focus on some positives?

    Everyones got an opinion and that’s fine – hell, Paul Harrisons are legitimately a joy to read – But is a little balance really to much to ask for?
    Practically any menion of the sequel trilogy on here is followed by something tongue in cheek or outright bashful – agaun, interesting and entertaining in isolation. At this point it feels toxic.

    • Has Been Kenobi

      I kinda felt that Paul’s review of the last Jedi was positive. Even if it did sum up to ’better than TFA’

      • Andy

        Its not that I want everything positive! Hell I have some serious issues with last Jedi structurally – I just feel in general theirs a huge anti-sequel feeling and that’s fine, everyone can have an opinion but I feel like its fairly toxic at this point

        • Has Been Kenobi

          Fair enough. I’ve been fairly open about actually enjoying the sequel trilogy, and haven’t faced a lot of toxicity yet. Of course I’m new, so I don’t have that big name recognition that draws in the haters

        • Please clearly explain how it’s toxic to point out and discuss an outlandish comment that was made by a foreign Star Wars fan?

          • Andy

            I don’t find that toxic, I never said I did. Despite what some people above seem to think, I don’t have any issue with criticizing SW. Hell I do it a lot myself. I just feel that there’s a huge anti sequels bias in the reporting on this site, and while I don’t have a problem with that in and of itself (its interesting and I find many many flaws in them myself), it feels to me that the bashing has gotten to a pretty extreme level.

            I just think that maybe you should consider that there is a portion of your followers actually brought into the fold by the Disney Era, and try to balance some of the sentiments made.

            Look I’m not trying to whine. I love JTA, been visiting it every day for 5 years. I’m a big fan Paul, followed some of your interviews n stuff for years. I don’t want to go anywhere else, nor shall I. I’m not a huge sequel fan myself and I have no problem with criticism and healthy discussion. I just fear that it can turn off a portion of readership.

          • OK, cool. 🙂

          • Andy

            Sorry I may have went on a little rant there.
            I’ve just been seeing so much bashing online it really started to get to me.

            Happened to be here last night and I guess I sort of vented.
            There’s nothing wrong with opinions, and if they veer in one direction that’s simply the way they are.

            I was in the wrong on this one.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            You rant cause you’re passionate. Through passion you gain strength. Let the dark side flip through you 😉

          • Andy

            Any chance you’ve ever heard the tragedy of Darth pleagius the wise?

          • Has Been Kenobi

            No.

            But I read the memoirs of darth bane so I basically got the gist? ????

          • Daniel Preece

            No, I take Obi-Wan’s advice. “Trust your feelings.” And my feelings say TLJ is dog poop.

          • Has Been Kenobi

            I do say a lot of things 😉 fair enough, to each their own

          • I just never reacted that way about a film. I mean, if you told me ROTJ sucked and that Ewoks ruined Star Wars, I couldn’t care less. I mean, I would feel sorry for you because you’re unable to understand why it’s the greatest Star Wars film BY FAR, but it would certainly have no effect on my enjoyment if it. That’s not true today. These stupid films are almost like fans’ religion today. They can’t cope when it is criticized an they go all jihad on you.

          • Andy

            Agree with you there. People take these things way to seriously (including me at times)

            This isnt a critique but I’ve got to ask…….Why Jedi?

            I just never could love VI the way I love the other films in the original trilogy, and I’m curious to hear the opinion of someone who does

    • This is what I don’t understand. I thought this Chinese man’s claims were outrageous. I thought we could all laugh together. How is this negative in the least? Laughing is positive.

      • Jacob Carter

        The most laughable part of the article really is when you get to the end and they obviously point out that the entire point of making a ‘story’ out of a negative Chinese review on their website was entirely for the purpose of highlighting their own negative review. It’s like reads like them trying to say “see we’re right, someone didn’t like it, see look, we didn’t like it either!”

      • Captain America Trooper

        I dont actually disagree with the opinions of the article. I find their issues valid. Devout Christians question their faith without being crucified, cant Star Wars fans? Those last two sentences in the article though, ouch.

        • That’s fine. It’s actually more than fine. I am certainly not going to persecute you if you feel his claims are valid. I just can’t deal with this fake outrage and people not being able to handle a controversial statement made by an outside fan about a Disney Star Wars film where they fall to pieces and can’t discuss it like adults.

          • Captain America Trooper

            Absolutely. It’s a tun off.

    • Captain America Trooper

      So censoring the conversation so that it is balanced is the answer? Is there any place left on the internet where you can express an honest opinion without being called out for it?

      • Xo Tica

        Why don’t these people who have no self esteem and backbone just not bother reading every article which they come across that might hurt their small minds. The best censor is yourself.
        If you love a film , great. The only critic you have to please is yourself.

        • Andy

          Aaand you sir utterly missed the point of what I pointed out.
          I said that a balance would be nice, or at least a slightly fairer one.

          • Xo Tica

            My reply was not directed at you , it was aimed at people who seem to get too emotional over other people’s differing views. Everybody is entitled to love or hate something.
            In terms of balanced articles here , that’s up to JTA. I see the articles here as points of discussion so readers can get involved , there are no right or wrong replays.

          • Andy

            That’s fair enough. People do get too emotional about such things. This is the internet, emotionally induced typing binges are bread and butter (unfortunately).

      • Captain America Trooper

        The answers are No and No. LOL.

  • TLJ was a Trekkie inside job

    Even communist think wth did canto bight have to do with Star Wars?

  • Gloriouscollector

    Just to be fair out there in China, Chinese audience really enjoy the Fast and Furious and Transformers movies. So………………………………………

    • Shoretrooper

      …….so do Americans. What’s your point exactly?

      • Gloriouscollector

        I think you see my point compared to Star Wars those movies are stupid. UNLEASH THE BEAST…………..yuck.

  • obreaslan
    • Who is this meme directed at? Because the attitude about what JTA posts here has been toxic. 🙂

      • obreaslan

        I’m just going through a little “I didn’t like TLJ, and you shouldn’t either” fatigue. This isn’t really directed at JTA or the contributors, this just happens to be the place I was when my crankiness got the better of me. [I should stay out of the comments sections. 🙂 ] I liked the film, and was genuinely surprised by the negative reaction. Everyone is entitled their opinions, of course, and I’ve enjoyed reading your analyses here, even though I don’t agree with everything ;-), but there seems to have been a “piling on” effect happening on some sites, and social media, since the movie came out. A constant flood of negative articles, but never seeming to post anything positive. Like trying to push a narrative that “TLJ was bad and here’s why you shouldn’t like it either.” It’s very tiring. I’ve been having flashbacks to nearly 2 decades of Prequel bashing. I think I just enjoy the process of getting excited for the films & collecting like I’ve done for over 40 years. Star Wars has never been about perfection, but I enjoy it anyway. Anyway, not really directed your way, just angry man shaking his fist at the internet.

        • I was only playing around. I honestly thought this was such a ridiculous comment that we all could laugh and share in the ridiculousness. It wasn’t meant for anyone to take it as a TLJ dig.

    • Daniel Preece

      But it’s not a “dead horse.” TLJ is OFFICIAL. Lucasfilm isn’t going to fix this. It’s truly the last statement about Luke Skywalker.
      .
      When the TLJ “horse” is indeed “dead,” I’ll stop posting about it… as much.
      .
      Remember, when fans were apoplectic about Jar Jar and midichlorians, Lucas got the hint and corrected that direction. Jar Jar had one more scene (one fitting his character–manipulated fool), and midichlorians were never mentioned again. So it does matter that discontent customers speak their minds loudly and often.

  • Tom Chorlton

    This is just further evidence that CHINA IS EEEEVIL!!!!

  • Funtomaz

    Badly written article. However, if you follow the link in the second paragraph to the Sixth Tone website you will find the MUCH better source article. Comic Book news just copy pasted a few statements from that article, but the original article goes into much more depth as to why the Chinese might not like TLJ and Star Wars in general.
    They also interview the guy who runs the Chinese Star Wars forum.

    Now, some of you may find the statements offensive. For example, he remarks that the Chinese prefer “larger than life” and “physically attractive” actors and comments that the cast of Star Wars look ordinary in comparison to what you get in Marvel movies.
    There is a certain trend lately to cast, how to put it… more average looking people, someone who could be me or you. Star Trek Discovery comes to mind, as does The Last Jedi.
    But he also says that upon hearing that a movie is actually Episode VIII a lot of Chinese might feel there’s too much catching up to do (most of them didn’t see the first six movies).

    I recommend you read the source article.

    Also, the final statement by that guy who runs the Chinese Star Wars forum is

    “Overall, I still think the movie does have its innovative aspects,” he said. “I can see that it wants to break free from the old mold and remake itself.”

    CBN cherry picked only a few statements.

  • hammyhamster

    Wang and Chen are my new favorite Chinese film reviewers. If I could, I’d give them a warm embrace and treat them to a beer.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6ff42168134fff253589e79c544d08d78b265845a1bf9c079490594c9e37567f.gif

  • Gdbrent

    Guess it’s just easier for Americans to buy that the galaxy is ruled by corrupt, incompetent leaders who are led by an emotionally and intellectually challenged leader. But then our President is Donald Trump and the ruling party of the Supreme Court and Congress is his Republican Party.

  • Albert Escobedo

    He didn’t like it. Good for him. I love individual opinions.

    • Daniel Preece

      Reducing the debate to simple “like/don’t like” is a major problem with the current generation. They cannot process any analysis longer than a tweet. This is why their intelligence is called into question.

      • Albert Escobedo

        How’s this?:

        “The perils of “The Last Jedi” brought up thrilling jitters. My arms squirmed with excitement as vessels plummeted against the threat of the First Order. The helplessness of the Resistance, whether from leader incompetence or failed rescue attempts, increased my support for Luke and Rey’s triumph. The reluctant mentor, Luke, gained my sympathy as a distant friend in need of discipline. Brief moments of interest, such as Luke’s reunion with best droid friend R2-D2, stirred feelings of hope for the jedi hero’s return to former glory.

        However, diversions for espionage exposition became barriers from witnessing Luke and Rey’s relationship unfold. I was anxious to see Finn and Rose succeed against the First Order, but their attention towards space equines and shifty prison dwellers, seemed dismissive of the resistance’s plight. I became less sympathetic with them and more towards Rey and Luke. As I reflect on my experience while watching the film, my impressions sway, ranging from such states as pleasantly surprised to unstirred apathy.”

        EDIT: I watched the movie in Spanish. I appreciated the actors’ clarity.

        • Daniel Preece

          That’s much better. At least now we can have a good conversation.
          I maintain that TLJ is an okay movie “as a movie.” My beef remains that TLJ is a bad “Star Wars movie.” My major point is the handling of Luke Skywalker. I can live with the other shortcomings. If Luke’s story honored his achievements and heroism of the OT, I wouldn’t be saying nearly as much. (There’s a lot to complain about, however, but since I have no faith in modern storytellers to get things right I just learn to live with disappointment. But getting characters wrong for artificial, arbitrary reasons is totally unacceptable to me.)

      • dogbite

        Please, the supposed Leader of the Free World can’t even process anything longer than a tweet; don’t try & pretend this is a young persons problem alone…also, seeing as he was elected into office, whose intelligence should be called into question, exactly? 😉

  • rebelsfangirl

    China has never been big on Star Wars, for whatever reason. They are welcome to their opinions of course but all through the article and its absurd, over the top statements all I could think of was how well the awful, awful Transformers films did in China.

    • Captain America Trooper

      It doesn’t do well because the OT was not shown in theaters in China until only recently. They don’t have the rabid, 40 something year old fan base that much of the rest of the world has. So it’s actually a good, unbiased test group for the new Star Wars films.

      • Funtomaz

        The source article says the OT movies were shown in the 1990s. Not that recent.

        • Captain America Trooper

          It doesn’t surprise me at all that the source article got that wrong.

        • Captain America Trooper

          Hello?

          • Funtomaz

            Hello there!

          • Captain America Trooper

            Did you do some additional research?

          • Funtomaz

            Concerning what? The release of the OT movies in China? They never had a wide release in cinemas, from what I read about it. The article got that fact wrong or confused it with the prequels perhaps. I suppose they are available on disc/streaming services. But the majority of people in China have not seen the original SW movies.

          • Captain America Trooper

            Correct. Your earlier post insinuated something different. The OT was shown at a movie festival in Shanghai just prior to the release TFA.

    • Nick Dickens

      Well that’s a very good point.

  • Tom Chorlton

    How do they feel about the original trilogy?

    • Daniel Preece

      Lemme guess– they stopped at ESB? When the evil empire was winning?

  • zx_spectrum_30

    Started watching Jackie Chan’s Kung Fu Yoga last night – a Chinese production billed as an Indiana Jones style adventure. Turned it off after 15 mins as it was just flat and soul less. Clearly the Chinese audiance is different to the Western one, which is a challenge for US studios who feel they have to appeal to that market.

    They are right about the bungling First Order. A Resistance isn’t needed, just let the FO stuipd itself out of existance.

  • Darth_Rizzen

    I can’t pretend that I read the “Inslting your IQ” review in the douban website because, well…
    (…)又是一个“你想多了”的打脸粉丝的时刻。我对Snoke挂掉的失望不是因为他的背景没解释,而是他的死不如皇帝的死那么有意义。老三部里皇帝也只是个符号,完全没有背景。皇帝操纵Vader完全是另一个故事。但是皇帝的死是Anakin的复活,也是Luke展示他光明面力量的时刻。我们不关心皇帝的过去,前提是Luke和Vader当前的故事足够吸引我们。而且,George Lucas的星战根本看点是mythology。你拿RotJ的皇帝throne room的情节来跟对比TLJ里Snoke throne room的情节,看到没?从Rey的自投罗网到Kylo和Snoke试图转变她,连逼Rey/Luke看义军被灭的情节也不放过,标榜创新的TLJ的这个场景完全是致敬RotJ的。然而只借鉴到了形式,而(为了让你觉得意想不到而)抛弃了实质。Snoke的死,除了给Kylo留下supreme leader位置的空缺,就好像没了别的意义(就连Snoke促成的ForceTime也还能继续)。再说,四十年前的电影也许可以程式化,但如今电影的叙事不一样了。我们现在看到Snoke肯定希望对他了解多一些。我不用知道他是不是Darth Plagueis。但是他的伤痕累累是怎么回事?他对Kylo做了什么?他为什么会是First Order这个军事组织的最高领袖(知道这一点的话,我们还可以对Kylo现在的处境知道更多)?如果说,坚持他是Darth Plagueis然后很失望是活该那我还可以理解。但对这些问题抱有疑问、没得到解答就看到角色被杀掉了而觉得失望,是很正常的啊。(…)

    Err… OK. I’m sure it’s interesting.????

    Seriously though, I stronly suggest reading the Sixth Tone article upon which the CBN review instead. It’s much more in depth and interesting as it gives some perspective from Chinese Star Wars fans about the films (new and old) and how they were perceived.

    • Funtomaz

      What, you don’t read Chinese? 😛

      • Darth_Rizzen

        J’ai quelques progrès à faire en la matière… ????

        As a rule, I try and look at first hand information instead of somebody’s summary but in some cases I have to rely on others. ????

        Pity. This particular review is very long. Could be a rant, could be a passionate, informed review… Who knows?

        I’m always interested in other people’s points of view, so long as they’re articulate and devoid of zealous preaching. Doesn’t affect my appreciation of TLJ, though.

        • Funtomaz

          By the power of Google translate I have deducted that the review actually says all the things mentioned in the article 😀

          My most favorite review on that Chinese website is that one sentence comment:

          “Rey and Kylo have taken the next step to have a baby together”!

          I can see Ep X looming on the horizon already!

          Another review says that the actor who plays the villain is ugly and that the asian actress is really ugly too.

          Yet another reviewer has this comment on Rose’s rescue action at the end of the movie “Black lives matter?”

          This Chinese website is hilarious! There would be a meltdown on IMDB or RT if people posted these comments 😀

          • Darth_Rizzen

            Beware the power of Google Translate, though. The result is often Google Confuse. ???? (hint: try deepl for European languages ???? ).

            The comments are indeed hilarious. Thanks for sharing. ????

            Nothing like a little feedback from different cultures to put some things back into perspective.

          • Matthew Sebastian Wang

            Fun fact: Lots of HK fans refer to Rose as 肥妹, which means fat girl.

          • WolfStark

            Wouldn’t surprise me, considering the usual appearance of actresses in asian movies is somewhere between slim and fit (like Paige), while Rose is chubby. Funny that if you say that in the western world, people will jump on you for not being body positive and fat shaming and so on.

          • Funtomaz

            I know it’s superficial but I was somewhat distracted by the female commander (?) with the nose. The very big nose. The one that informed the crew that everyone on the bridge except for Leia is dead. A few years ago you would not have seen actresses like her in big blockbuster movies. They used to be described as “character actors”?
            Once again, I know it’s superficial, but I have to admit I prefer idealized, larger than life blockbuster movies, where everyone has perfect hair when they get out of bed. There are movies that reflect reality, then there are movies that are pure fantasy and wish fulfilment. I don’t want reality injected into Star Wars. It is a space fairy tale.

          • WolfStark

            For me it’s a bit more.. how to put it.. a question of character. I don’t mind big nose, old hag or chubby china girl but it’s like with Steve Buscemi or something more actual – Dirk Gently. The people in this series are very.. well, down to earth, very diverse in aesthetics but these people have character. Appearance and character compliment each other, a lot. With Star Wars it feels a lot more like a political message, it’s pretty apparent how there is a complete lack of attractivness and sexuality since 2013 in Star Wars, the only thing in this direction are attractive faces (Daisy Ridley) or that bare chest scene of Kylo Ren. The only one getting a skin tight costume? An old hag with purple hair (that reminds many Germans of Margot Honecker, the cruel and influential wife of a socialist Dictator in the GDR), who is a Vice-Admiral but apparently doesn’t want to wear her uniform. The Star Wars cast is diverse and I do think it’s generally a good thing but with plain and incoherent writing/direction, the potential falls flat.

          • Funtomaz

            Thanks for the translation of the review! And thanks for that additional info. It is sometimes refreshing to read the comments of people who come from a different cultural background. We (as in North America/Western Europe/Australia) live in our own bubble.

          • Matthew Sebastian Wang

            Your welcome! Glad I could help out!

          • Gosh, that’s funny and terrible at the same time.

          • Matthew Sebastian Wang

            Hey Paul, the second part of my translation was indentified as spam. Could you help sort that out please?

          • Yes, sorry I am just getting this now.

          • Tyler Frechette

            Well, they’re not wrong

        • Matthew Sebastian Wang

          Personally, I think the guy has a point.

          • Darth_Rizzen

            This is an example of what I call articulate and argumented. ????

            The only thing we differ on is the conclusion. But the analysis and parallel with ROTJ are perfectly sound and I share his point of view. ????????

    • Matthew Sebastian Wang

      I’ll help translate since I’m chinese.

      It’s another “fake out” that slaps fans in the face. I’m not disappointed in Snoke because of his lack of backstory, but that his death lacked impact compared to the Emperor’s. The Emperor in the OT was just a tool for character development, he had no backstory either. The Emperor’s hold over Vader, is a completely different story. The Emperor’s death was Anakin’s redemption and resurrection, and a showcase for the light side within Luke. We didn’t care about the Emperor’s past. Luke’s and Vader’s story was enough to captivate us. George Lucas highlighted the mythology of Star Wars. Comparing the ROTJ and TLJ throne rooms, can you see it now?

      Will continue translating the rest later.

      • Matthew Sebastian Wang

        From Rey surrendering herself to Kylo and Snoke attempting to seduce her to the dark side, to forcing Rey/Luke to see their troops being destroyed, all the details are replicated. The so called “new direction” of TLJ completely copies ROTJ. However, only the appearance is copied. The emotional impact (since they wanted to trick you) is abandoned. Snoke’s death, aside from giving the position of Supreme Leader to Kylo, seems to lack meaning. (Even Snoke’s ForceTime continues to operate) To reiterate, films fourty years ago could revolutionise cinema, but this is not the case today. When we see Snoke, we definitely hope to learn more about him. We don’t need to know if he is Darth Plagueis or not. Where did his scars come from? How did he cause Kylo to fall to the dark? Why is he the Supreme Leader of the First Order? (If we knew this, we could more easily understand Kylo’s current predicament.) For example, if someone insisted hat he was Plagueis and felt disappointed, I could understand that.

        However, feeling disappointed due to the explained mysterious and the killing of underdeveloped characters, is nothing out of the ordinary.

      • Matthew Sebastian Wang

        Repost since the original was caught in the spam filter.

        From Rey surrendering herself to Kylo and Snoke attempting to seduce her to the dark side, to forcing Rey/Luke to see their troops being destroyed, all the details are replicated. The so called “new direction” of TLJ completely copies ROTJ. However, only the appearance is copied. The emotional impact (since they wanted to trick you) is abandoned. Snoke’s death, aside from giving the position of Supreme Leader to Kylo, seems to lack meaning. (Even Snoke’s ForceTime continues to operate)

        • Matthew Sebastian Wang

          To reiterate, films fourty years ago could revolutionise cinema, but this is not the case today. When we see Snoke, we definitely hope to learn more about him. We don’t need to know if he is Darth Plagueis or not. Where did his scars come from? How did he cause Kylo to fall to the dark? Why is he the Supreme Leader of the First Order? (If we knew this, we could more easily understand Kylo’s current predicament.) For example, if someone insisted that he was Plagueis and felt disappointed, I could understand that.
          However, feeling disappointed due to the explained mysteries and the killing of underdeveloped characters, is nothing out of the ordinary.

      • Darth_Rizzen

        Thanks a lot for the effort, much appreciated! ????????????????????

        • Matthew Sebastian Wang

          No problem!

  • Jesus’s Best Friend Floyd

    They prob didn’t like Rose because….

    • WolfStark

      she’s a pretty unlikable character, often moaning how bad everything is and making the Star Wars universe way too black-white (yeah everyone with money and has fun in a casino is of course an evil weapons dealer and they are all mean to the cute animals blargh). Who knows, maybe the chinese would also prefer her more attractive sister too.

      • Matthew Sebastian Wang

        Yeah, people I talked to wanted more Paige instead.

        • WolfStark

          Me too. I think it’s a bit sad that it seems while the Force is becoming something more religious that is not just preserved to Jedi and Sith and is now also helping non-force users (at least it seems so), it also has a habit of taking the lifes of these ordinary people. We had this happen in Rogue One and now also in TLJ, I would Like to see someone survive the help of the force for once instead of.. well blowing up.

    • Daniel Preece

      … because she did nothing useful. Her only accomplishment was a selfish act to PREVENT Finn’s heroic sacrifice. Kept everyone in danger so she could get a kiss. What a waste of time.

  • Matthew Sebastian Wang

    When the general public is disinterested in your franchise and your fanbase is underwhelmed by a lacklustre product, of course no one would go see it.

    • Nick Dickens

      Well the film is massively successful so on that basis clearly a lot of someone’s are seeing it can it’s the biggest film of the year.

      • Matthew Sebastian Wang

        Not in China it isn’t.

        • Nick Dickens

          Touché. But doing just fine still.

          • Matthew Sebastian Wang

            Absolutely. TLJ’s poor performance in China does not negate the fact that it’s been a runaway success in the rest of the world. My comment was based on Chinese fans’ reactions. We are generally indifferent towards Star Wars and TLJ was no exception.

          • Nick Dickens

            I hope that they do do well in China. I feel they’re missimg out big time. I imagine in the next year or so we’ll see a MASSIVE push in promoting the whole franchise now that Disney own all the rights now to the films and can in theory do lots with them without having to wait till 2020 when the Fox distribution deal ended with LFL and now they also own the distribution to the original Star Wars (1977) and its derivatives (Special Edition/VHS/DVD/Blu-ray versions) I imagine they’ll exploit it massively.

      • Funtomaz

        The interesting question is… how big is this fan backlash really? Insignificant? A sizable portion of the fanbase?
        The Solo movie, already criticized for its unneeded story, will feel the full brunt of any dissatisfaction.

        The Transformer movies used to make good money in the USA, but at one point the fans in the USA had enough. And that point was reached with Age of Extinction, which still made a good amount of money, but the next one was a flop (in the USA) since a lot of fans had obviously decided they’ve had enough.

        Merchandise sales in the first 7 months of 2017 were 50% down compared to TFA and RO too. I think the first cracks in the wall are appearing and Star Wars dissatisfaction and Star Wars fatigue are showing. It’s a non stop barrage of merchandise and movies. I wonder what’s going to happen with Solo and in the months after it.

        Maybe Solo will be a very positive surprise and all doom and gloom dissolves into nothing. If it crashes and burns… we’ll have interesting times ahead.

        • Nick Dickens

          I have mo idea. I don’t dwell on it. So much hate around these days for films. Hating JL, TLJ. Surely folk have better things in their lives? Clearly not.

          I hope Solo is great, but I won’t thjnk about that till I go to see it. Fretting over it won’t make it better.

          • WolfStark

            Movies won’t get better if you don’t talk about it, no one knows about an opinion if you don’t express it. I am weirded out by the constant moaning about negative feedback nowadays that is called “hate” to make it look purely emotional and unjustified, while the positive opinion is rightious and good.

          • Nick Dickens

            Oh I’m not doing that. I just personally find moaning about something insatisfying diesntbachieve anything and I like to concentrate on the positive.

            That’s not to say I’m right in that way of doing things, just that it works for myself.

            I just look at it as people can moan about anything they like. I just don’t have to listen to/read it.

          • Nick Dickens

            Perhaps. I do find there are more important things to focus my energy on and if I didn’t like a film moaning about it won’t change anything. Not that that means critiquing a film is a pointless exercise. I just in this case found TLJ to be a most delightful and fun film.

            The only thing that bugs me is Star Wars, like Marvel is now just another film. I always felt until TFA that the world would stop turning if I didn’t see one asap. Now, well I wonder what i as a child would think of the SW OT was completed in 2 years from 1977-1979 with the three films – of not for Rogue One etc the films main trilogy could/would be one a year.
            Or if say 2 years the trilogy would have been concluded between 1977-1981. So from 5-9 or 5-7 the trilogy would be over.

            Star Wars shaped my entire life and was a massive impact upon my childhood in regards to entertainment. I just had to have the Star Wars toys and action figures and the comics. The bedsheets, curtains, the lamp shade, – I had these till at least 1988 as a child and teenager, and it kept its grip on me till at least 1983 when He-Man, G.I. Joe and then later Transformers and Thundercats began to gain my attention.

            However I never lost my deep love for Star Wars and still played with my toys, some of the more later ones and reissues I still have to this day and cherish like a letter or photograph from an old friend.

            That’s what I worry about children missing out on. This whole massively mass produced got to have three of it by yesterday is not so good I fear.

            Remember it took 10 years to get the Harry Potter story told. It took time to unfold and develop at a natural pace.

            I feel they think all these franchises won’t laat so they have to crank out as much as they can as quickly as they can before the games up.

            Which is that’s the way they’re going it it is rather a sad state of affairs.

            So there you have my concerns for the future of Star Wars, and many other filmsand properties I love.

          • Daniel Preece

            I disagree that moaning has no effect. Lucas definitely heard the moaning over Jar Jar and all but cut him out of the next two movies completely.

          • Nick Dickens

            But that was a different world back then. Now it’s Disbey in charge.

        • Daniel Preece

          Disney is already underselling Solo. That way if it does “okay,” they can say it “exceeded our expectations.”

  • Super Amigo

    There are a lot of problems in TLJ, but one of them is inherent to the whole franchise:

    Space combat in Star Wars is all over the place. It doesn’t have anything remotely resembling guidelines or rules, more or less common to all scenarios.

    One day capital ships can be destroyed with a few TIE blasts, other times that’s impossible to do. X-Wings have shields, but can’t stand one shot. TIEs don’t have shields, but if the heroes go in it, it can stand a few shots. Sometimes the shields can stop energy but not particles, and sometimes both. And let’s not start talking about light speed (that one got messed up in the sequels, though).

    In the OT, space combat is more tidy, but only because it doesn’t dwell too deep in its rules, it doesn’t give the viewer too much information.

    It’s a mess. And yes, space combat in Star Wars is an insult to intelligence sometimes.

    • Daniel Preece

      Space fantasy doesn’t work as a genre if you get too deep into how the tech works. We just need enough explanation to make sense of the action. Star Wars isn’t “science fiction.” That said, it still should strive to make sense.

      Meaning, Lucasfilm is playing too loose with continuity when it gets creative. TLJ basically introduced “hyperspace drones” where a ship can lightspeed as a weapon into another ship. That basically negates any use or need for manned attack craft (steering, etc, can be done from a command ship). Kinda makes all the previous movies look flawed. Why invest in human atmosphere technology in TIES and Destroyers when they could essentially be space-javelins? (Plus why have a space academy that risks training rebel pilots?) With drones, the fight becomes about money and resources, something the rebellion cannot match. The rebels win with courage. Drones have flawless “courage.” KK should be careful to not introduce things that undermine other things. Another example…

      K2SO. If the empire had thousands of droids that (a) were excellent at melee and (b) had PERFECT aim with a blaster, what’s the point of all those stormtroopers??? The empire would win in a week with an army of such droids. So as lovable as K2SO is, he’s a wreck to the story–another case of introducing things that wreck other things. K2SO and BB8 should have swapped movies, to preserve the integrity of the saga.

      • Super Amigo

        Excelent analisys.

        The combination of drones and weaponized hyperdrives negates any other space war tactic and makes capital ships useless and obsolete, no matter the size or power.

        Didn’t think about K2SO in those terms, but you have a point.

        Still, I can find a glimpse of an explanation in the “no droids, no clones” fixation after the Clone Wars. Another factor could be cost.

        As every single thing in the new trilogy, space battle rules (the few that were in place) are now irrelevant and meaningless.

  • scram

    China, the country that throws tons of money at Fast and Furious turds and Transformers crapfests, has no business saying THE LAST JEDI is an “insult to your intelligence”.

    • Matthew Sebastian Wang

      I think they expected more from Star Wars. The F&F and Transformers movies are considered dumb in the first place, so they don’t mind. There is a precedent for SW movies, and since TLJ deviates so much, that’s why they criticise it.

      • TayVanis

        Not sure I agree – Star Wars has never been a big thing in China. Whatever your views on TLJ (and I’m a big fan), I’m not sure it’s the ideal jumping off point!

    • I laughed out loud. I agree.

    • Crazy, isn’t it?

    • Wookie

      Goes to show you how truly bad TLJ was lol

    • Daniel Preece

      Maybe, like many Americans, they expect more from Star Wars than being on the level of Transformers (as TLJ is).

  • MellowVelo27

    About 99% of movies are an insult to my intelligence.

  • Kinja

    Here’s a headline: ‘Fans Who Claim TLJ Insults Their Intelligence, Insult the Intelligence of Intelligent Fans Who Actually Enjoyed TLJ’

    I’m 44. Grew up with the OT. Know it inside and out. Would say I’m a passionate fan. I also work in the VFX industry, which isn’t really known for having a lot of unintelligent people. So while I don’t consider myself a genius, I do think I’m somewhat bright. Bright enough to know if I like a movie or not. Bright enough to recognize a few small flaws, but not let it ruin what is overall a fantastic film. So I have to say I’m getting a little tired of the noisy contingent who disliked the film saying it ‘insults their intelligence’, because the implication of that sentiment is that only dummies who don’t get Star Wars enjoy TLJ.

    If TLJ didn’t go the way you wanted, or tainted your view of the OT and Luke Skywalker, then I’m sorry. Your opinion is valid. But my opinion is valid as well, and your dislike of TLJ does not make you more intelligent than another person, nor does it mean you “get” Star Wars more than Rian Johnson or other people.

    Me personally, I dug the hell out of it. Were there things I might have done different? Of course. Holdo would have been Ackbar, mutiny subplot would have been ditched, Canto Bight would have been revised in multiple ways, Lando would have been brought back, etc., etc. But seeing the film four times now, you know what I wouldn’t change? Luke. His character arc in the film, while unexpected to lifelong Luke fans, was a bold, interesting, and ultimately satisfying choice. Part of the fun we have as fans is nitpicking each new film. But if you get too caught up in the minutiae of what you didn’t like, and refuse to acknowledge the good stuff (of which there was a lot), then you’re only doing yourself a disservice in the end.

    Like or dislike, nobody is wrong in their opinion. But claim you’re smarter than the average fan because you dislike the movie? You’re wrong. Very, very wrong.

    • Has Been Kenobi

      I mean, I kinda like the mutiny subplot, but I agree whole heartedly with everything else you just said 🙂

    • TayVanis

      Holdo was far from my favourite character in the film but I don’t think Ackbar would have worked in that role other than the final “exit”. For me, the first time I saw it, part of the drama was not knowing whether Holdo was a good ‘un or not or had some other secret agenda…

      Totally with pretty much everything else you said though…

    • Nick Dickens

      Great review. That hits the nail on the head. The kind of Trump way of liking at something. Someone says something you don’t like it’s ‘Fake News’.

      If someone doesn’t like a film that’s great. They probably love broccoli and I don’t. But if I love the film it’s great too. This whole hating on people and calling them names for not liking something you do is not just insane but dangerous.

      Sadly one of the dangers of the internet and social media that the likes of facebook are now realising is that it tribalises people and doesn’t bring them together but divides them and allows entrenched and sometimes dangerous views to become more entrenched and dangerous.

      Remember this terrorism we are all experiencing is helped by the internet and giving a channel to these people that before never existed.

      Moaning about TLJ is just a tiny, petty part of that, but does expose the deep flaws and issues in our society that some have exploited for their own gain and others deny is a problem or ignore.

    • jedijason1138

      I would love to just copy and paste this to every hater. This is perfect.

      How many of us would love to be Rian Johnson: a legit Star Wars fan who understands the characters and is given the reigns to flesh out the stories he wants to move forward? I know I would. But I also know that I don’t have a thick enough skin to put up with the hated, both from the educated and from the ignorant masses.

      Rian Johnson IS a fan. He IS a good director that will only get better. He IS a great writer. I am none of these things. Neither are the majority of the haters.

      Like I told my close friends: just because someone bought some Star Wars toys, doesn’t mean they own the franchise.

    • Daniel Preece

      Not to be rude, but I can’t respect anyone’s “movie intelligence” that thinks TLJ is a good movie. Putting Luke aside, it’s horribly assembled. It just repeats OT story beats and doesn’t care if they matter or make sense. For one example, the casino thread was utterly pointless. But Rian just had to inject a “Bespin” scenario. Many other problems come from completely disregarding the movie it’s a sequel to (TFA).
      .
      The best I can say about those who like TLJ is that they are unrestrained by judgments of quality craftsmanship. I can’t fathom how a thinking person can watch any movie this structurally flawed and not say “wait a minnit….”

  • Tyler Frechette

    Never thought I’d agree with a Commie!

    • Funtomaz

      China is as communist as the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (aka North Korea) is democratic. 😉

  • Good Man

    The film lacks depth and wonder, it is just boring.

    • Daniel Preece

      They “rounded out” Luke by trimming off all the heroic parts.

  • TimmytheTusken

    Why take it out on the Last Jedi? The crapfest started in 2015. This just trudged it along.

    • Gloriouscollector

      And yet you still went to see this movie. Hmmmmm……………

      • Daniel Preece

        Hmmmm…. maybe Rogue One gave him hope that TFA was a fluke.
        Now he knows RO is the fluke.

  • BlackBeltJohnson .

    Well, I can see why audiences there may largely be unhappy with the portrayal of Luke. The concept of the wise old (and powerful Master) schooling a fresh-faced upstart is as old as time over there, as well as cherished story trope. People there were likely expecting that from Luke, instead of the paranoid, self-pitying, cowardly, ideal-ditching, wanna-be child-killer that Disney decided to portray, lol.

    • Gloriouscollector

      Apparently in 2018, a character despite being a fictional icon can’t have any flaws. Because as we all know doing what we expect a character to do always ends up being fresh and not typical and boring right?……..WRONG!!!!!! I’m getting tired of this idea that the Jedi were these all powerful all knowing beings that can do no wrong. Despite your personal opinion of the prequels one thing that those stories demonstrate crystal clear is that they are not super heroes or gods they are knights or samurai that fought a war that led to their down fall. If they were all powerful how could the evil Empire exists how can one Sith Lord over power the Mighty Jedi who failed to protect the government they sworn to protect. That in itself calls for an engaging story. Not a story were fans like yourself I can assume want Luke to go all Starkiller(Galen Merrick) and throw walkers all around. Luke’s sacrifice is true for his character, in Return of the Jedi did Luke defeat the Emperor in hand to hand combat? No. Did he defeat his own father the Jedi way the way that Yoda and Obi-Wan wanted Luke to defeat his father?No, although he did manage to defeat Vader he was almost succumbed to the Dark Side. I guess you could call that a……….wait for it……………a FLAW!!!! A hero flaw to be specific. A hero sacrifices themselves for the greater good. They don’t always go out in a blaze of glory. Luke just like in Return of the Jedi was prepared to die even if that meant fracturing his father’s grasp of the dark side. Luke has never being the type of character to defeat his enemies the typical way.

      • BlackBeltJohnson .

        Lol, I think you’ve just gone Olympic Gold in all the conclusions you’ve high- jumped to there, friend.

        First, I don’t recall anyone saying a character cannot have any flaws. My point would be this… there are flaws, and then there’s just plain waaay out of character, and to the point of absurd. Unless of course you think flirting with the idea of killing a relative if they happen to be behaving badly is par for the course? If my niece were getting into trouble or ‘straying down the dark path’ as it were, the thought of killing her to prevent her from straying further is so ridiculous that its well into lampoon territory.
        What we saw of Luke in ROTJ was a person who risked his life to try and save a relative who was already guilty of committing heinous crimes. Therefore, the idea that an even more mature Luke would even contemplate (however briefly) killing his own nephew for less is ridiculous. Conceit, arrogance, short-sightedness, close-mindedness…these are character flaws. Premeditated murder? That is psychotic.

        Next, you do not know what my opinion is of the prequels and the Jedi of that era. Period. So please do not paint me with your assumptions, nor try to tell me what my opinion is, thank you. That’s just impolite.

        Now, since the subject is broached, I love the Jedi of the PT era. Not because they are perfect or force wielding demi-gods, but because they were imperfect yet still heroic and true to their Order. Mace Windu is one of my favourite Jedi. Yes, he was a stiff, yes he was dogmatic, and arrogant at times. Very flawed. However, when the magnitude of all the mistakes of the Jedi Order were laid plain in front of him. Did he go run away and hide, cut himself off from the Force and sulk over this? No, he immediately dove off to set things to rights and died in the attempt. He was still a Jedi, and had held to his ideals despite his whole world being shattered. Which brings me back to the issue of character.

        Yoda; the entire Jedi Order perished under his watch. Thousands of students he had known and trained from infancy, as well as his friends. Did he run away and sulk and cut himself off from the Force and quit being a Jedi? No, he went into hiding, yes, but he set himself to rights and remained a Jedi until the end. Same thing with Obi-wan. A Jedi until the end, despite losing everything he held dear.

        Next, another wild and completely wrong assumption on your part on the whole Galen Marek thing you brought up. I haven’t said nor seen anyone say that they wanted to see Luke demonstrate over-the-top levels of power in the film. What I wanted to see is Luke behave like a JEDI.

        Of course, people change over time. Yes, people can grow bitter and afraid and paranoid over traumatic things that happen to them, and never come to terms with them either.
        However a Jedi is not an ordinary person though. We’re talking about a person who has undergone intense mental, spiritual and physical training. A A person who is capable of a level of commitment and sheer mental and emotional toughness that the average person is not. That is part of what made them special. They were not average people, not just because of their powers, but also because of what was within, and the dedication to their order and beliefs.

        This is the fundamental problem with Luke’s portrayal in TLJ. While his sacrifice at the end was certainly Jedi-worthy, by and large, this is a man who was unable to hold to his ideals. He had no faith, he was ruled by fear, and lacked any humility (sulking and hiding and not using one’s gifts to serve is a form of arrogance). In short…this was not Luke Skywalker. And if we’re to accept that this was Luke Skywalker, then everything he went through and achieved was only lip service. His OT transformation was Skin-deep, and bereft of meaning, which is also a disservice to the story as a whole.

        Again, I don’t think anyone was expecting Luke to be perfect. We’ve never really seen a perfect Jedi anyway. Another part of what makes a Jedi special though is the insight and inner strength to not be mastered by one’s flaws, though the world be falling apart around them. It was therefore entirely within the realm of creative possibility to have a great and compelling story with Luke in his new role as teacher facing new challenges, but still being a Jedi through and through to the end. That is what he was taught, like his father before him. And that is what he, the Master, should have been able to dispense to Rey; you don’t give up, you don’t lose faith, run and hide when things get difficult and allow yourself to be governed by fear; you’re still a Jedi, even if you’re the only one.

        • Daniel Preece

          Correct, BBJ. Luke in TLJ isn’t merely “flawed.” He’s utterly misrepresented. They couldn’t have gotten it more wrong if they turned him into a fall down drunk in a ditch.

          In terms of logic, BBJ, what we’re fighting is a gross inability to sense proportion. To gloriouscollector’s way of thinking, a penny is the same as a million dollars because they’re both “money.” So making Luke a would-be murderer in TLJ is a justifiable “flaw” because Luke had the “flaw” of impatience in ESB. It’s absurd, but that’s what we’re fighting against.

          But the millennials can’t see that. It’s just beyond their ability to see. They’re raised without heroes. To them a hero is a dope head who sells drugs for a “good” reason. Selfish is the new good. They can’t process doing what’s right simply because it’s right. Truth is, Star Wars is simply not meant for this generation.

          • Gloriouscollector

            You know I was going to respond in detail to your response, but after reading your comments about millennials. I just decided not to, because the conversation wouldn’t be about Star Wars or even The Last Jedi. What an ugly thing to write to assume that a entire generation’s definition of a hero is a “dope head who sells drugs for a “good” reason”. That is just stupid sir you know it and I know it.

          • dogbite

            Oh come on, do you really have to use your movie review soapbox as an excuse to tear down an entire generation? If anything I hope the leaders of tomorrow can see far past this old & tired “us vs. them” mentality that many of you OT guys seem to be so firmly stuck in.

            You wanna know what the most ironic thing is? Almost none of the hedonistic media that you claim to be ruining the kids these days is even made by them – Rian Johnson, for instance, is probably closer to you in age than any millennial.

            But please, continue. I can always use a laugh 😛

      • Daniel Preece

        Your post is so off the mark… so devoid of factual basis or sound logic. Why? Because it’s just a “straw man” argument (look it up). AT NO POINT HAS ANYONE ARGUED THAT LUKE SHOULDN’T BE FLAWED OR MAKE MISTAKES. Clear? That’s what YOUR side invents to have something to argue against.
        Lucas well established that his heroes have flaws and make mistakes. And any sound literary analysis of heroic fiction will find this to be true since the beginning of civilization. Was Achilles flawless? Hardly. King Arthur? Nope. The Three Musketeers? Flawed each one. Wha?? Huh?? That’s because heroism is NOT DEFINED by “flawlessness” (try as you might to argue that it is). Heroism is defined by CHOICES. Siding with evil is not an act a hero will do. Murdering innocents is not a choice a hero will make. You can have protagonists make those choices if you wish, but they won’t be heroes–they’ll just be protagonists.
        So your attempt to pain Luke as a “dark side” figure is in vain. The facts don’t support your case. Was Luke temped to use “dark side” traits such as anger? YES, because he wasn’t fully trained and because he was (in SW fashion) in the very pit of Hell facing Satan and his chief Demon. Luke was outmatched in almost every way–in experience, in skill, in training, everything but one thing–his HEROISM. He kept his faith in himself, in the Force, and in the good inside his father. A hero without temptation is a hero unchallenged. Luke was challenged, and Luke SURVIVED. He came out the other side VINDICATED in his beliefs.
        But all you can see and think is that since he got angry, he’s a “dark side” character. You could not possibly be more wrong. You just WANT him to be that way, but the facts don’t support you. Lucas’s story does not support you.

        • Gloriouscollector

          Did you read the part where I said ALMOST succumbed to the dark side by unleashing his anger. When is almost the same as saying that he is a dark said figure. Also I never said he wasn’t a hero you’re projecting saying that I said he wasn’t. Talk about a “Straw Man”…..right?

  • Daniel Preece

    I agree that TLJ insults intelligence on the grounds that it is a wretched “part two” to TFA. It’s the worse “sequel” ever made that I know of. Granted, it could be a masterpiece in and of itself (it’s not, but just sayin’) and still be a horrible episode of a multi-part saga. The first rule of serialized fiction is to adhere to continuity. TLJ doesn’t–not to TFA, the OT, or the PT. Telling me TLJ is a continuation of TFA (and the others) is an insult to my intelligence.
    If Rian and KK want to tell stories of broken characters–I WANT TO SEE THAT MOVIE. But I do NOT want them to break Luke Skywalker (and Han Solo) to tell it. It just doesn’t fit. This choice was 100% unpardonable, imo. And I’ll never let up on this point.

  • ShipGirlLover

    I liked TLJ…until I listened to Rian Johnson. His idiotic assertions, from Snoke not having any kind of backstory because of it not mattering to Rey, to his claim that there wasn’t room in the movie for any much of Phasma (but he had time to have Rose free horses), to his claim that there was NO place for Lando yet he found a place to plug in Maz.

    The more I listen to this guy the more I dislike the movie. And I LIKED Luke at the end of the movie, too.

    TLJ didn’t insult my intelligence – RIAN JOHNSON’s comments did.

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